Thanks for all the info guys, especially Black Sheep- do you have any particularly difficult questions, or any that, without raising red flags, lead a JW down the path of researching all the things they'd rather not?
Posts by Tuber
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98New here
by Tuber inhey all.. .
thought i'd introduce myself.. .
first, a disclaimer: i'm an athiest.. .
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98
New here
by Tuber inhey all.. .
thought i'd introduce myself.. .
first, a disclaimer: i'm an athiest.. .
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Tuber
Trying to get her to do the research for herself, but it's a challenge, will take a look at that thread.
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101
Atheist Fascism
by Band on the Run init is so draining for me to constantly read threads by atheists that assert that those of who are uncertain or have faith have irrational minds.
god can not be proven or unproven.
the harping is tedious.
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Tuber
Berengaria, thanks.
You just read my story? Does this mean that there is somewhere you can see a history of posts?
The way this forum puts the newest threads first, letting the older ones slowly get buried does my head in, and I find it hard to find my own threads/ posts. -
101
Atheist Fascism
by Band on the Run init is so draining for me to constantly read threads by atheists that assert that those of who are uncertain or have faith have irrational minds.
god can not be proven or unproven.
the harping is tedious.
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Tuber
What Berengaria said is very relevant.
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98
New here
by Tuber inhey all.. .
thought i'd introduce myself.. .
first, a disclaimer: i'm an athiest.. .
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Tuber
Thanks guys.
Never discuss doctrine?
Not sure how to go about that, looks like I'm already having that conversation.
Haven't been able to get a hold of Hassan's books yet, I live overseas, ordering an english book from the US or UK is going to be quite the wait. -
101
Atheist Fascism
by Band on the Run init is so draining for me to constantly read threads by atheists that assert that those of who are uncertain or have faith have irrational minds.
god can not be proven or unproven.
the harping is tedious.
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Tuber
It is so draining for me to constantly read threads by atheists that assert that those of who are uncertain or have faith have irrational minds. God can not be proven or unproven. The harping is tedious. I understand that for you atheism works. It is good for you. Sometimes it feels as though you will impose atheism on me the way the Spanish Inquisition worked.
Band,
I'm still fairly new here, so I may not have run across many of these threads yet.
Disclaimer: Avowed, baby eating atheist.
There are atheists who are all butthurt and believe there's no god simply because they didn't get dealt the best hand in life. These are bitter atheists, and just plain old bitter people, and you can be sure if they were faithful they'd be just as passionate about the other side of the argument.
What I'm trying to say is, people are dicks. There are christian dicks. Hindu dicks. Buddhist dicks. Atheist dicks. You, as one of faith, simply get more exposure to athiest dicks, since faith and athiesm are polar opposites, and who is a dick gonna go after, but someone who believes something completely opposite to him?
For example, there are dicks who like public transport, and dicks who like using their own car. The dicks on the public transport side aren't going to start harping about public transport to people who ride the same bus as them, are they? Nor are they going to try and preach their message to random people in the street. These are dicks we are talking about, dicks, dude. They're looking for an argument, looking to make people feel bad so they can feel better about themselves. So obviously they're going to go after people who they can rile up the most, who they can hurt the most, and who's pet cause is the polar opposite of their own. In the transport case, the public transort zealots will go after the car drivers, and vice versa. Same is true with the atheism vs faith argument.
You may not be a dick, in fact, I don't know you, so my default assumption, until I know better, is that you're not. But let me tell you, among your fellow faithful, there are a metric shit ton of dicks. It's the same for atheists, we have just as many.
You may not be a dick, but you're still a prime target for atheist dicks. I'm not a dick, but I'm a prime target for faithful dicks.
If there are 100 athiests and 10 are dicks, chances are far higher you'll run across those 10 dicks than you will the 90 non-dicks. Because the dicks seek you out, it's not just blind chance.
So when you see a bunch of athiest dicks doing what they do best, don't start thinking "damn it,atheists are dicks". Just think "wow, these guys are dicks".
In summary: dick dick dicks dick dick.I respect atheism. My choice and it is very personal is to have faith. Certainly, it is shaky. My bottom line is to believe.
People seem to think atheism is a religion, or a belief system, it isn't. It's a lack thereof. We don't have a holy book, we don't have churches or temples, priests or rabbis. We differ in our morals and values. The only thing that unites us is a lack of belief, and for the majority of us, that lack of belief is caused by science, and a respect for the scientific method.
This is why us athiests find you faithful to be so hard to understand. Evolution and Natural Selection have been scientifically proven. The age of the Earth and the universe have been determined, and they're measured in millions, billions of years. We may be off by a few million years, later discoveries may refine our understanding. But we know the earth wasn't created in 7 days. We know all the animals and plants of the world didn't suddenly spring into being over the course of a week. We know diseases are caused by germs, not demons.
The more we learn and discover, the more unreliable the assertions of faith become. And the faithful react in one of three ways. Either they reinterpret their holy books to fit with science, they ignore science (and by doing so spit on the incredible amount of hard work and effort put in by people who have done things such as cure disease, eradicate famine etc), or they admit defeat on one point, and regroup at a point science has yet to touch. This last one is known as the God of the Gaps phenomenon, and from our side of the fence, it's actually pretty funny.
Most of us (excluding dicks), respect your right TO BELIEVE what you want- but that comes with conditions- being that you don't hamper science, and don't let your beliefs harm anyone else (for example, the JW blood issue).
This doesn't mean we respect WHAT YOU BELIEVE. For us, respecting your beliefs is no different to respecting belief in fairies and unicorns. We respect your right to believe what you believe, but we still think it's fucking stupid, and if we're honest, we'll probably tell you. But only dicks will go out of their way to find you, tell you, and then let you know what they think that means about you as a person.How is atheism imposed on me by an outsider any different from having JWs imposed on me by my abusive parents?
See what I said about dicks.
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Watchtower 2011 July 15 Study Edition: Are all study editions like this?
by Tuber inso during my research on the wts, i stubled across a link to the july 15th watchtower.. .
http://download.jw.org/files/media_magazines/w_e_20110715.pdf.
i'm assuming that the study editions are the ones that they only give to members/ those who attend meetings.. .
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Tuber
The not believing in hell thing is one plus, I'll agree.
But when you think about it...
They discourage higher education.
They do not tolerate any opinion that differs from WTS doctrine.
They discourage independant thinking.
They ban life saving medical procedures.
They encourage members to snitch on each other.
They encourage women to stay in violent marriages, allowing divorce only in the case of adultery.
They impose the penalty of disfellowshipment for a great number of offences...
It's like they've taken hell out of the afterlife, and set it up in the here and now instead.
I'm not arguing with you about which is worse... Both are horrible in their own ways and teach horrible things.
It's just that mainstream christianity tends to allow a bit more wiggle room, people are allowed to think, allowed to differ in what they percieve a verse of the bible means, and although they believe in hell, they have salvation through grace not works, rather than salvation by how many copies of a magazine you manage to distribute (works). -
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Watchtower 2011 July 15 Study Edition: Are all study editions like this?
by Tuber inso during my research on the wts, i stubled across a link to the july 15th watchtower.. .
http://download.jw.org/files/media_magazines/w_e_20110715.pdf.
i'm assuming that the study editions are the ones that they only give to members/ those who attend meetings.. .
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Tuber
Glad some of you got something out of it.
Nice to be able to let you guys know the type of things being written without you having to read the whole thing (it was torturous).
And to think that I used to get all angsty and angry about some of the things mainstream Christianity teaches.
The stuff JWs believe make Christianity seem downright tame in comparison. -
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Watchtower 2011 July 15 Study Edition: Are all study editions like this?
by Tuber inso during my research on the wts, i stubled across a link to the july 15th watchtower.. .
http://download.jw.org/files/media_magazines/w_e_20110715.pdf.
i'm assuming that the study editions are the ones that they only give to members/ those who attend meetings.. .
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Tuber
In the first toolbar in the text editor, there is a dropdown that says "styles." Highlight the text you want to quote and click that dropdown, and you should see it says "quote." That will put the text into a quote box. Try it.
You can also do the indented kind of quoting using the button in the second toolbar with the quotation mark symbol.
Ahhh, I see.
Kind of clunky, will have to get used to it.
Thanks. -
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Watchtower 2011 July 15 Study Edition: Are all study editions like this?
by Tuber inso during my research on the wts, i stubled across a link to the july 15th watchtower.. .
http://download.jw.org/files/media_magazines/w_e_20110715.pdf.
i'm assuming that the study editions are the ones that they only give to members/ those who attend meetings.. .
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Tuber
Can someone please tell me how to quote?
Probably an obvious place I should be clicking, but I'm having trouble spotting it.
@Listener: I didn't even spot that, I was too caught up with the little bits and peices. Sure they had a chuckle over that.
Ok, time to continue wading through this crap.
"Will You Heed Jehovah's Clear Warnings?"
13(18) Always be on guard, Satan is always out to lead you astray.
15(18) Satan wants to silence JWs. He tries to distract and divide them by making them do such things as "gadding about" and forwarding non-essential emails. We have no right to tell other people how to live their lives (must have been pissing themselves laughing as they wrote that). Idle and troublesome behaviour distracts us from kingdom preaching. If we aren't supporting Jehovah and his work, we're supporting Satan.
16(18) Keep busy with kingdom work so as not to fall prey to Satan.
"I Feared Death- Now I Await Life In Abundance"The long, rambling recollections of an old Italian witness. Not much propoganda here, but I'm sure anyone who can stifle the yawns as they read through it may be able to spot a few gems.
"God's Rest- What Is It?"
5 (24) The purpose of the 7th day "is for the earth to be inhabited by obedient men and women who will take care of it and all life upon it".
15 (27) Don't be disobedient.
16 (28) "We can enter into Jehovah’s rest —or join him in his rest— by obedientlyworking in harmony with his advancing purpose as it is revealed to us through his ORGANIZATION".
17 (28) "If we minimize the Bible-based counsel that we receive through the FAITHFUL AND DISCRETE SLAVE CLASS, choosing
to follow an independent course, we would be placing ourselves at odds with God’s unfolding purpose"
"God's Rest- Have You Entered Into It?" 1 (28) Don't rebel. Be ready to obey.
7 (29) Proverbs 4:1 “The path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established".
9 (30) I'm just going to copy and paste the whole paragraph, it's gold:
In modern times, there have been refinements
in our understanding of certain
Bible teachings. This should not trouble us;
it should bolster our confidence in the faithful
and discreet slave class. When representative
members of the “slave” discern
that our viewpoint on some point of truth
needs to be clarified or corrected, they do
not hold back from making the adjustment.
The slave class is more interested
in cooperating with God’s unfolding purpose
than in shielding itself from criticism
over an adjusted understanding. How do
you react when an adjustment in our understanding
of the Scriptures is presented?
—Read Luke 5:39.
10(29) Jehovah wants you to preach from house to house.
11(29) Be obedient. Get out of your comfort zone and preach house to house even if it makes you uncomfortable.
12 (29,30) Talks about the disfellowshipping of a son who decides to sin instead of worship Jehovah.
13 (31) Tries to use the bible to support disfellowshipping. Disfellowshipping a close family member is painful.
14 (31) But as with in the example, the family members who are still JWs have no choice in the matter. It's the fault of the one who was disfellowshipped.
16 (31, 32) We must love Jehovah more than unfaithful family members.
17 (32) Disfellowshipping helps apostates etc. come to their senses.
21 (32) Faithful older members of the “great crowd” have served Jehovah for decades, many never expecting to grow old
in "this system of things." But they don't give up, because Jehovah will keep his promise... some day.