i had been reading discussions on topix about the case and decided to go see what was actually said and not said during the trial.
i'm left with several indelible impressions of the courage and honesty of candace and of her mother kathleen.. another thing is that the court was given the opportunity to really get a feel for the jw lifestyle.
the close family relationships they promote which emphasizes, for me, that if the elders had been as vigilant as they said they were they would have spotted that kendrick had become alarmingly close to candace.
Thanks ann
lifeswater shared some valuable insider info. I am stunned that those 2 elders lied so blatantly under oath about notifying the elder body about kendrick. I absolutely believe what life's water says regarding this because the very same situation transpired in a local congregation - the elders who knew about a pedophile were told by the society to keep the info secret even from the other elders. I ought to have guessed that this was probably a worldwide policy
like soft+gentle, i just finished reading the trial transcript.
during the process of digesting what i read, i was reminded of a concept that i learned, ironically, during a phone conversation with an elder in the service department.
i dont remember what the issue was that i was calling about but i do remember him mentioning the concept of a "realm of confidentiality.
DNCall
yup the realm of confidentiality is truly complex. I need to do more reading than I have time for at the moment. Please share your thoughts and I will try to keep up.
i had been reading discussions on topix about the case and decided to go see what was actually said and not said during the trial.
i'm left with several indelible impressions of the courage and honesty of candace and of her mother kathleen.. another thing is that the court was given the opportunity to really get a feel for the jw lifestyle.
the close family relationships they promote which emphasizes, for me, that if the elders had been as vigilant as they said they were they would have spotted that kendrick had become alarmingly close to candace.
making a correction to this para from my post 1125 above
Did you notice that both the judge and Mr Simons were aware of treading in new territory. On one of the days, during a discussion of what instructions needed to be given to the jury a defence lawyer even mentioned what appellate lawyers want to know. I think this was during a discussion of whether or not the jury needed to be told to assess whether a duty of care applies in the case. I'll check where and when as I have not made many notes as yet. (okay found it. Day seven pages 45 and 46)
to read
Did you notice that both the judge and Mr Simons were aware of treading in new territory. On one of the days, during a discussion of what instructions needed to be given to the jury a defence lawyer even mentioned what appellate lawyers want to know. I think this was after a discussion of whether or not the jury needed to be told to assess whether a duty of care applies in the case which in context was part of what was being denied/allowed to defence and plaintiff lawyers. I'll check where and when as I have not made many notes as yet. (okay found it. Day seven pages 45 and 46)
like soft+gentle, i just finished reading the trial transcript.
during the process of digesting what i read, i was reminded of a concept that i learned, ironically, during a phone conversation with an elder in the service department.
i dont remember what the issue was that i was calling about but i do remember him mentioning the concept of a "realm of confidentiality.
making a correction to this para from my post above
Did you notice that both the judge and Mr Simons were aware of treading in new territory. On one of the days, during a discussion of what instructions needed to be given to the jury a defence lawyer even mentioned what appellate lawyers want to know. I think this was during a discussion of whether or not the jury needed to be told to assess whether a duty of care applies in the case. I'll check where and when as I have not made many notes as yet. (okay found it. Day seven pages 45 and 46)
to read
Did you notice that both the judge and Mr Simons were aware of treading in new territory. On one of the days, during a discussion of what instructions needed to be given to the jury a defence lawyer even mentioned what appellate lawyers want to know. I think this was after a discussion of whether or not the jury needed to be told to assess whether a duty of care applies in the case which in context was part of what was being denied/allowed to defence and plaintiff lawyers. I'll check where and when as I have not made many notes as yet. (okay found it. Day seven pages 45 and 46)
i had been reading discussions on topix about the case and decided to go see what was actually said and not said during the trial.
i'm left with several indelible impressions of the courage and honesty of candace and of her mother kathleen.. another thing is that the court was given the opportunity to really get a feel for the jw lifestyle.
the close family relationships they promote which emphasizes, for me, that if the elders had been as vigilant as they said they were they would have spotted that kendrick had become alarmingly close to candace.
vageni82
your mother took reasonable steps imo by warning those two sisters after first alerting the elders.
data-dog, I hope this case succeeds at appellate court level because there is a pressing problem amongst Jehovahs witnesses. In addition to the huge threat to youngesters in not warning parents, if the organsiation is suppressing recividism then this is giving a false impression to the world of the effectiveness of their program of spiritual help for offenders.
yourmomma, redfriedtruth, yup I'm noticing that too
thanks to all who have commented
i had been reading discussions on topix about the case and decided to go see what was actually said and not said during the trial.
i'm left with several indelible impressions of the courage and honesty of candace and of her mother kathleen.. another thing is that the court was given the opportunity to really get a feel for the jw lifestyle.
the close family relationships they promote which emphasizes, for me, that if the elders had been as vigilant as they said they were they would have spotted that kendrick had become alarmingly close to candace.
DNCall , yes i noticed the judge's reference to common law and I got the impression that one application he made of this was to the period when mandatory reporting did not include religions as yet but that common law did. The judge was discussing these points in chambers with all three lawyers as to what should be allowed from depositions and what disallowed. I must go back and check as I am a little hazy about this whole subject and how it impacts to what extent the elders and Service department failed to take reasonable steps to protect Candace.
Did you notice that both the judge and Mr Simons were aware of treading in new territory. On one of the days, during a discussion of what instructions needed to be given to the jury a defence lawyer even mentioned what appellate lawyers want to know. I think this was during a discussion of whether or not the jury needed to be told to assess whether a duty of care applies in the case. I'll check where and when as I have not made many notes as yet.
(posted the above on your thread too http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/246541/1/Candace-Conti-Trial-and-the-Realm-of-Confidentiality
like soft+gentle, i just finished reading the trial transcript.
during the process of digesting what i read, i was reminded of a concept that i learned, ironically, during a phone conversation with an elder in the service department.
i dont remember what the issue was that i was calling about but i do remember him mentioning the concept of a "realm of confidentiality.
DNCall, yes i noticed the judge's reference to common law and I got the impression that one application he made of this was to the period when mandatory reporting did not include religions as yet but that common law did. The judge was discussing these points in chambers with all three lawyers as to what should be allowed from depositions and what disallowed. I must go back and check as I am a little hazy about this whole subject and how it impacts to what extent the elders and Service department failed to take reasonable steps to protect Candace.
Did you notice that both the judge and Mr Simons were aware of treading in new territory. On one of the days, during a discussion of what instructions needed to be given to the jury a defence lawyer even mentioned what appellate lawyers want to know. I think this was during a discussion of whether or not the jury needed to be told to assess whether a duty of care applies in the case. I'll check where and when as I have not made many notes as yet. (okay found it. Day seven pages 45 and 46)
i had been reading discussions on topix about the case and decided to go see what was actually said and not said during the trial.
i'm left with several indelible impressions of the courage and honesty of candace and of her mother kathleen.. another thing is that the court was given the opportunity to really get a feel for the jw lifestyle.
the close family relationships they promote which emphasizes, for me, that if the elders had been as vigilant as they said they were they would have spotted that kendrick had become alarmingly close to candace.
thanks cedars.
Here is another point
Mr Simons raises the important issue of the elders protecting Mr Kendrick. As awful as this sounds the evidence seems to indicate that they were but whether they were doing so consciously or unconsciously is debatable. What makes it seem that they were consciously protecting kendrick is that they failed to report to the society that they thought Kendrick was lying about the extent and gravity about what he'd done and that therefore he could not be trusted. They admit that another child had come forward and said that Kendrick had touched her chest and that her mother was threatening to call the police. Only the elders in their letter to the society say that Kendrick accidently touched the other girl's chest. If it was so accidental why would the mother be threatening to go to the police? edit: furthermore why didn't the society pick up on this - the fact that they didn't implicates them in the issue of letting the elders protect kendrick imo. here was a golden opportunity to seek to apply their own two witness rule.
http://jwleaks.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/north-freemont-cong-elders-telecom-with-wtbts-re-kendrick.pdf
i had been reading discussions on topix about the case and decided to go see what was actually said and not said during the trial.
i'm left with several indelible impressions of the courage and honesty of candace and of her mother kathleen.. another thing is that the court was given the opportunity to really get a feel for the jw lifestyle.
the close family relationships they promote which emphasizes, for me, that if the elders had been as vigilant as they said they were they would have spotted that kendrick had become alarmingly close to candace.
okay here is another important point from day 7 (pp91 and 92)- Mr Simons (Candace's lawyer) summing up address to the jury on the matter of what the elders took away from their meeting with Kendrick - that he had lied to them about the extent of his sexual abuse of his step daughter Andrea.
http://jwleaks.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/candace-conti-v-watchtower-jury-trial-day-7-june-11-2012-pdf.pdf
So we see that the elders were aware from the start that Kendrick could not be trusted and despite having this awareness they still neglected to meet with him ever again to find out/encourage/monitor/counsel him about his inclinations.
Some of these concerns that I am spotting in these trial documents i hope to bring up in my discussions with JW family and friends. I haven't as yet decided how to raise the subject though.
i had been reading discussions on topix about the case and decided to go see what was actually said and not said during the trial.
i'm left with several indelible impressions of the courage and honesty of candace and of her mother kathleen.. another thing is that the court was given the opportunity to really get a feel for the jw lifestyle.
the close family relationships they promote which emphasizes, for me, that if the elders had been as vigilant as they said they were they would have spotted that kendrick had become alarmingly close to candace.
I had been reading discussions on topix about the case and decided to go see what was actually said and not said during the trial. I'm left with several indelible impressions of the courage and honesty of Candace and of her mother Kathleen.
Another thing is that the court was given the opportunity to really get a feel for the JW lifestyle. The close family relationships they promote which emphasizes, for me, that if the elders had been as vigilant as they said they were they would have spotted that Kendrick had become alarmingly close to Candace. From the start of the trial the the two elders both said that they recognised that Kendrick had sexually abused his stepdaughter Andrea and that he was a child sexual abuser. They put this in writing to headquarters. But they did not even give a simple generic warning to Candace's mum and dad who the judge felt were caring enough parents to take action to keep a watchful eye on Kendrick and limit/stop her contact with him. If the parents had been given a simple warning even if it was generic they may have sat Candace down and questioned her about how much association she was having with Kendrick and this may have provided an oportunity for Candace to say what was happening to her. The judge felt that her parents, in their care for Candace, were good enough parents to have protected her if they had been warned. Their care is shown by such things as that when their marriage was breaking up her parents sent Candace for psychotherapy (it was Kathleen who initiated the therapy and Neil agreed to it). When they went to meetings both parents made sure that Candace went with them and sat with them. After kathleen stopped going to meetings Neil (her dad) generally made sure that Candace always went with him to the meetings and that she always sat beside him. These are just some examples of their care. (But of course this does not deny that there would have been occasions that children were given rides to meetings and field service by others. Mr Simons established this fact by quesitoning the elders that in general parents would at least occasionaly arrange for their children to travel to meetings and field service with others. (Day One pages 94&95).
http://jwleaks.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/candace-conti-v-watchtower-jury-trial-day-1-may-29-2012-pdf.pdf
