without trying to sound like a wt writer myself, i find it amazing to see how the wts takes a subject and uses its crafty wording to mold the thoughts and opinions of the average r&f "dub.
" in doing some research on the un wts connection, i came upon a wt article from feb. 15, 1993 "are jw's a cult.
" (and they fit the mold big-time according to their own definition!
the article with the comically infamous question:
THINK TO WHEN YOU STUDIED. WERE MIND-CONTROL TECHNIQUES USED ON YOU?
if you remember mind-control techniques used on you then they werent really mind-control techniques. kind of like if you remember the 60's then you werent really there.
mox
guess i'm trying to use the ole "bait and hook" routine.
i would appreciate your comments.. hi xxx, i was wondering when your talk is going to be?
or was it this past weekend?
this is just my opinion but i wish people would stop using the 'bait-and-hook' routine. this is EXACTLY what apostates are expected to do. sly words and tricky questions. how slow-witted do you think people are that once you get to the meat of the argument they wont realize that thats where you were headed all along and you were playing your cards one at a time in an effort to 'trap' them?
sure, youll win the argument but youll antagonize the person youre trying to help. which is more important? now i havent brought anyone out yet but i havent had anyone stop talking to me either so i cant speak much for my personal success rate--but i think the best approach is an open and honest one. lay your cards out clearly and demonstrate that you have the ability to critically analyze information regardless of how much it supports your argument or not. above all, avoid emotionally loaded language.
this article from skeptical enquirer has been posted a few times. i repost it here. please read it if you havent yet. read at least the last subheading if you want the short version
http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-11/beliefs.html
mox
my fiance's mother, who is in complete hysteria since the attack on 9/11 and went back to being a witness after 10 years (clearly the main reason my fiance is now considering he should go back)told my fiance something that she heard from one of the elders last week.
i am not sure if it is true and most likely, there is no way to prove it.
she said that on the day of the attack, there was a group of people outside the wtc screaming and badmouthing jws because they don't fly the flag etc.
mommy: your comment reminds me of the feeling that gets apocalyptic people really excited -- the day when everyone is so sorry and wants in and it is TOO LATE! remember the noah drama? the laughing, the incessant, mocking laughing. the door shuts. SLAM! then the rain starts, slowly at first, then increasing. the laughing dies down and is replaces by cries and pleas which too fade to silence. that moment is very powerful for apocalyptic minded people because its so personally vindicating. there are probably deeper psychological factors at work here which i am not qualified to analyze. its a wonderful vindication to have someone change their mind and agree with your point of view, but it seems to be an even more powerful vindication to have some SUFFER TERRIBLY for disagreeing with you.
one interesting comment in the WT summary at the supplementary meeting (i didnt mention it before because it was a local brother and so not really relevant to the event) the conductor asked mockingly, 'why has the meeting attnedace gone up since september 11th? where were all these people before? but how long will it last? before they go back to their old lifestyle.' i thought it wouldve been nice to throw in a 'we hope they stay' or 'its nice to have them back anyways' but he moved on with only negative comments for people who had been moved by fear of world events. this is door-slamming-rain-starting-vindication at work.
mox
my fiance's mother, who is in complete hysteria since the attack on 9/11 and went back to being a witness after 10 years (clearly the main reason my fiance is now considering he should go back)told my fiance something that she heard from one of the elders last week.
i am not sure if it is true and most likely, there is no way to prove it.
she said that on the day of the attack, there was a group of people outside the wtc screaming and badmouthing jws because they don't fly the flag etc.
yeah, but what in the WORLD would they be doing there AFTER?? either way, its a dumb story.
mox
my fiance's mother, who is in complete hysteria since the attack on 9/11 and went back to being a witness after 10 years (clearly the main reason my fiance is now considering he should go back)told my fiance something that she heard from one of the elders last week.
i am not sure if it is true and most likely, there is no way to prove it.
she said that on the day of the attack, there was a group of people outside the wtc screaming and badmouthing jws because they don't fly the flag etc.
outside the WTC before the attack? the implication being that they met their just deserts when the towers tumbled?? how idiotic! jehovah was so incensed that he had to kill 5000 people just to get a few apostates?! well, thats consistent with the jehovah of the OT at least.
what a dumb story.
mox
this was cut and pasted, because i don't think the post will last long over at wol.. how would you answer this newbie?.
http://www.witnessesonline.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/witnessesonline/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000102.
torontonian .
locked, locked and locked.
i was just fowarded this from a faithful dub.
it sounds fishy to me, like one of those e mail hoaxes that go around.
subject: special talk on september 30 2001. .
bringing this back to the top because people are still getting this email and posting it
below is an email---just another example in a long history of having bethel speakers speculate on issues and matters that will never be put into print- yet for the poor listeners they leave with a feeling of new light.
we have all seen this type of info from the boys from bethel only to be told that it was the bro opinion and not the org- when the sh!t hit s the fan.
the org is fully aware that they have men with 20-50 yrs of bethel service out there giving goof balls talks and building up the hope of the rank and file knowing full well it will never happen or be true.
well seeker, it certainly is a common occurence that a CO or even just an elder will give a talk where he inserts his own ideas and the ideas 'catch' and spread around. used to be by cassette tape, now much faster online. tho discouraged, it is harder to prevent now.
this email does not bear the usual marks of an urban legend, not the copy i got. it may have been distorted tho. the part after about NYC looks like an addition from another talk, maybe the same speaker. my copy did not have this portion. and of course, the notes may not reflectly accurately what the speaker said. i posted earlier about the first point about muslims vs christians having some obvious flaws.
mox
this was cut and pasted, because i don't think the post will last long over at wol.. how would you answer this newbie?.
http://www.witnessesonline.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/witnessesonline/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000102.
torontonian .
shawnster's reply is typical. the relationship between the true GB and the WTS may change at any time, eh? my question is: how would you know if it did? think about that for a second and then ask yourself: how do you know it hasnt already? (think rutherford and board of directors)
mox
i was thinking about this un thing.
on one of the threads, someone had commented how the wt's association with the un would explain a lot of the changes in wt policy regarding blood, disfellowshipping etc.
i think this is likely.. it is entirely possible therefore, that the un association has been a good thing.
this is a good point expat. actually i tend to agree with meta that exposure to information in general can only be a good thing in terms of mainstreaming. this is true in the general awareness of the world and resulting inability to maintain seclusionist thinking among members at all ranks. and it also might be true in the society's reaction to further mainstream to counter the increasing dissedence. this second point is less clear and obviously could go the other way too. but i think we would all agree that since the net has entered the lives of the general populace, the effect has been increased mainstreaming, though far slower than we might wish.
however, there are methods of disseminating information that seems counter-productive. methods that fit those that the society teaches its members to expect from apostates: bitterness, slyness, exaggeration, 'smooth talk,' etc. like comment was saying about the guardian article on the UN DPI, it helps if we make a double effort to avoid these methods, even the appearance of them. lol, that sounds like theocratese doesnt it? avoiding not merely wrongdoing but the mere appearance of it. well, like expat, i have family to think of, and any little bit that helps is a good thing.
mox
