I come from an extremely musical family...myself, I am a violinist of 20 years...always enjoy talking music...just seeing what's out there...
Muzicman
MuzicmanCa
JoinedPosts by MuzicmanCa
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any musicians out there?
by MuzicmanCa ini come from an extremely musical family...myself, i am a violinist of 20 years...always enjoy talking music...just seeing what's out there.... muzicman
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How about 10 favourite albums (er, cd's)
by amicus inhow about your 10 all time favourite cd's.
mine:.
beach boy's -pet sounds.
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MuzicmanCa
hey this is right up my alley.....
TOP TEN FAVORITE ALBUMS:
U2- The Joshua Tree
Nathan Milstein- Unaccompanied Sonatas and Partitas for Violin by J.S. Bach
Kronos String Quartet- Winter Was Hard
Karajan/Vienna Philharmonic- All 9 Symphonies by Beethoven
Chicago Symphony/Solti- Mahler Symphony #3
Pearl Jam- Ten
Joshua Bell- The Kreisler Album
Godpseed You Black Emperor- Lift Your Skinny Fists
The Cranberries- Everyone Else Is Doing It, Why Can't We?
Pink Floyd- Dark Side of the Moon
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FREE ADVICE
by peaceloveharmony inhey people .
well, um, ya, so i'm just gonna offer some free, unsolicited adive here...... quick aside: for those of you that don't know me, here's a little background (short and sweet version)....raised a jw, baptized at 15, da'd at 17. .
here is a little plh philosophy:.
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MuzicmanCa
mmmm....coffee....what an excellent idea....
As for me, this last year-and-a-half has been a lesson in not letting others affect me. Particularly when it comes to family. This was the hardest loss of all, when choosing to leave the Witnesses. As a result it was quite some time before I was able to speak to my dad openly about things. I am at a point now where I can tell him what is going on in my life and I don't worry about what his response is towards it. Case in point, I am living with two girls now in Victoria, BC (I am from Arizona). A year ago I would have never been able to tell him this. But now, I could careless about his approval, or more importantly his disapproval. Learning to live in such a way that demonstrated a lack of need for his consent on every aspect of my life has been the most liberating part of leaving.
Gonna go make coffee now...
Muzicman
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did you talk to the elders?
by Moxy inon your way out, did you have the 'talk' with an elder?
(or elders?
) the kind of, 'excuse me, brother only-elder-who-i-really-trust, i've been having serious doubts about such-and-such and i would really appreciate it if you could help me see if i'm missing something, i sincerely want to know...'.
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MuzicmanCa
Actually I was disfellowshipped. However, prior to it happening I had had numerous discussions with elders and other JW's whose opinion I respected. But the clincher for staying out for me was when the word got out that I wasn't coming back, my former best friend stopped by my house (he knew he shouldn't have) to see how I was doing. I hadn't been to a meeting in a few months, and I was now living with "worldly people". When I told him that I was through with the Witnesses he said (I swear I'm not making this up) "...that I might as well just kill myself now, 'cause I'm a dead man come Armaggedon." He never was much for tact. While it was quite a shock to hear him say this, it really shouldn't be. Afterall, isn't this exactly what they believe, regardless of how few actually have the nerve to voice such an idea?? All the years I had been a Witness, not once did I hear a good thing about someone who had left.
At least my dad was a bit more choice with this words when he said that by leaving the JW's "I have completley ignored my long-term future and my hope of everlasting life, of which I was privledged to have an understanding for the first 25 years of my life. In disowning Jehovah, you have seperated yourself from everything good. Absolutley nothing that you do, no accomplishment that you may attain to, means a thing if pusued outside the context of loyal worhsip of Jehovah."
Thanks, Dad. Different words, same idea...
Muzicman
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The very model of a modern Ministerial.
by philo ini wrote this when i was a hardworking pioneer being passed over for ministerial servantship year after year.. .
the circuit servant's coming soon, and when he asks i'll have to say.
there's a creditable brother here the others are on holiday.
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MuzicmanCa
STANDING OVATION...
I totally know what you mean. It reminds me of all the times I was talking to the elders in the back of the hall so they could tell me of all the ways I needed to change so maybe next time God's holy spirit would see fit to use and appoint me; back when that actually mattered to me of course. I think it was the last time I was passed over that I began to realize that I was just way too non-conformist to be a JW with any level of success and that any efforts made were just futile.
Muzicman
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Tipping Your Hat to a Woman is SATANIC
by JanH in*** w52 4/15 254-5 questions from readers ***.
"* is it proper for men to tip their hats to women?g.
s., missouri.
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MuzicmanCa
This is too funny Jan. The sad thing is that the author is completley serious. It reminds of the time the elders from the hall paid me a visit at home to alert me of the dangers of sitting with a member of the opposite sex, i.e. masturbation. Couldn't believe it when they said that...It's kinda funny now, but it is quite a head-trip on the elders part to be telling young impressionable minds garbage like that. Things like that as well as the article you wrote only serve to distort the real relationship between the sexes, not clarify...
Muzicman
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Randall Watters exposed
by StiLLinTruth inhello again friends!.
well it was time again for me to take my weekly dose of apostate faeces and see what it tastes like.
decided to check out randy watters this time (we all love him here) and his little testimony on freeminds.org, titled "what happened at bethel in 1980?
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MuzicmanCa
StillIn...
Well, you certainly wear your self-righteousness well. I think I'm with Simon on this one. I am not sure to think if you are serious or not. If you are legitimate and you still went for the whole WTS bit, then I feel for you. I can relate to how you feel though. I was a JW for over 20 years, and even after I was out, I still defended my thinking even though I knew it was wrong. It takes a long time to learn how to recognize that spirituality is not about the absolute correctness of one's own behavior and thinking, or the incorrectness for that matter, of another's. When we point the finger at everyone else, we remove the focus from ourself. Yet it was Jesus who said not to worry about the splinter in our brother's eye when we got a rafter in our own. So, for me, I have had to learn how to get off the debate team and just focus on MY spirituality. Does this mean I think I am totally correct in what I think? Not at all, but actually, all of us are probably WAY off the reality of "God". We just have different ways of seeing him/her/it/whatever...
Now if this is all a prank well then maybe someone needs to go get a hobby...
Muzicman
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One more question NOW with my answer
by Yerusalyim ingod tested abraham by telling him to sacrafice his son issac.
since god is omniscient (knows all, knows the end from the beginning) he already knew abraham would go through with it unless god stopped him.
what was the purpose of this test?.
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MuzicmanCa
The test wasn't for God to see what would happen, but rather it was a lesson for Abraham. God doesn't need to figure things out.
MuzicmanCA
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Allow me to introduce myself...
by MuzicmanCa ini am a new face to this website, although i have poked around in it for some time.
i was born and raised as a witness starting in brooklyn, new york in 1973. i was disfellowshipped on my 26th birthday, november 20th, 1999. i am not one of those that feels bitter about it.
i know full well that the jw's have a code of morals and behavior that quite honestsly, i did not live up to.
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MuzicmanCa
Just wanted to reply briefly to PAbrooks:
I can appreciate what you are saying. Actually, my dad said basically the same thing when I finally told him I have no intentions of returning as an active JW; claiming for the most part that everything I expressed was simply a cry of "sour grapes". Most of the people who have responded to this posting have already stated the matter as it is; that the doubts and questions have always been there, it's only after being disfellowshipped that we are truly able to observe the WTS with absolute objectiveness. Such was the case with me. I had been openly discussing concerns since I was about 13. However, when you are not taught to think for yourself, (afterall isn't that what got Adam and Eve in trouble?) when you think of something that may vary from common thought, one automatically assumes the conflict is in THEIR head alone. So you bury it and try not to think about it too much. I was always able to be diplomatic enough with the elders though, that I could argue something without sounding like I was challenging anything. So I was able to have a good number of discussion with various elders without a thought of me being an "apostate." But now that I am df'd, I am able to consider critical information more openly. Afterall, what are they gonna do, disfellowship me? :-) It has been a year and a half now, and I am SO glad it happened. While the initial shock of the situation is one I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy, I got through it and am now able to see things in ways I had no idea I was capable of. I wouldn't call it a spiritual awakening -- Hollywood style with clouds parting and light coming from heaven with a choir of angels bursting into song, but I think it is definitley fair to say that I am being spiritually woken up.
MuzicmanCA
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Allow me to introduce myself...
by MuzicmanCa ini am a new face to this website, although i have poked around in it for some time.
i was born and raised as a witness starting in brooklyn, new york in 1973. i was disfellowshipped on my 26th birthday, november 20th, 1999. i am not one of those that feels bitter about it.
i know full well that the jw's have a code of morals and behavior that quite honestsly, i did not live up to.
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MuzicmanCa
Hello all. I am a new face to this website, although I have poked around in it for some time. I was born and raised as a Witness starting in Brooklyn, New York in 1973. I was disfellowshipped on my 26th birthday, November 20th, 1999. I am not one of those that feels bitter about it. I know full well that the JW's have a code of morals and behavior that quite honestsly, I did not live up to. So it is only reasonable to say that I deserved to be df'd. However, I am not going back. This time away has been an opportunity to examine why in the world I was a JW even though I knew I didn't want to be. I was baptized when I was 18, thinking that any doubts were just in my head, and that this was just what I needed. Now that I can look from the outside in, I am able to see things for what they are. I am also able to learn how to think and choose for myself, something I was taught to be afraid of. I have been out of the WTS for a litte over a year now and guess I am ready to join these discussions.
I will start by saying that I am not here to bash Witnesses. I strongly believe that the organization provides, for some, for a certain type of spiritual need. This would go for just about any organized group or system of beliefs. Could it possibly be that one of the reasons there is such a prevelance of organized religion is that this is God's way of saying, "Hmmm. Well you don't understand me if you think of me like this, well, maybe try to think of it like THIS instead?" I think it was a Fransiscan monk who said that if we could understand God, then he wouldn't be God. So he appears in different forms.
People have different reasons for going to a church or practicing a religion. Some people don't feel they have the intellect or the confidence to approach God without some mediator. Some like the beauty of ceremony that a church can provide. Some like the feeling of community. Others need to be told how to think and what to believe. And all this and more is in part, what organized religion provides. A routine. A method. An explanation. There is great security and sense of comfort gained in having answers. So when I think of the Witnesses and what the WTS, I say, if it helps you draw closer to God, if it helps to make you a better person, if it provides steps to make your life better, then mission accomplished.
I know Witnesses claim to have the truth. Fact is, so do many other religions. We all would like to think that we have some "right on the money" understanding of Scripture and prophecy. I am sure that if I performed my own scriptural acrobatics, I could come to some sort of conclusion as to how my life fulfills certain prophecy and that here is what it all means. I have decided instead that any conclusions I come to - or anbody else for that matter - are wrong. We HAVE to recognize our own fallibilty. If we are to suggest sole spokesmanship for God, we better have it right.
There are the endless debates that can be had held regarding doctrine. I am not here to argue dates, question the liability to be had by the Society for their ignorant approach to medicine, hash up old history of 'so and so did this', or any of the other common approaches to arguing the Witnesses. It's been done so much, most of what one hears and finds is simply redundant. Besides most of the mistakes that can be found within the Watchtower organization, are ones that can be found in any other group. So I don't think that misconstruction of doctrine, or personal matters where on is wronged, in itself, significant as they may well be, are the markings of a group I want to stay away from.
For me it is not so much WHAT the Witnesses think, as is HOW the Witnesses think. When you approach the organization epistemologically, it forces one to look at how they come up with what they do, and what it produces. I see paranoia. I see self-righteousness. I see a strange hybrid of love and hate that encourages an unhealthy sense of exclusiveness and contradicts natural law. I see the power of God in the hands of men. I see hypocrisy. I am sickened by the type of thinking epitomized by one elder that would repeatedly refer to the Witnesses both in prayer and talks, as "the greatest people in the world." The fact that no one would challenge him on this point speaks for itself. Sure, Witnesses might make great neighbors, but that does not make them the all-encompassing solution to every problem on earth.
So do I feel I have transcended some way of thinking or that now I have some bit of spiritual truth gone unseen by ALL these JWs? Not at all. Such thinking is arrogant, proud, and spiritually dangerous. It is one thing to say that such and such is what I believe, knowing that this is probably going to evolve. It is something else to have someone dictate this for you, mandating that you goosestep right along with the rest of those of whom you assume to be of like mind. The critical finger that is pointed by the WTS towards all other groups (valid as it may be) is one that can be pointed right back. They shouldn't be surprised, and I don't think they are, when it is.
So where am I going now that I am "out?" Well, not to sound cliche, but this is a journey. I am not turning my back on God. Just an organization that puts itself in that position.
Greetings to all
Muzicman