Posts by stuffwotifink

6

Oooohhhhh the Irony

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

just skimmed the new october broadcast.

http://www.jw.org/download/?fileformat=mp4&output=html&pub=jwb&issue=201510.

check out losch talking about good works and sacred service.

stuffwotifink

Next month G. Jackson counsels us all on "the showy display of one's means of life".

447

Does Anyone Still Believe in God?

by LaurenM in

do any of you ex-jw's still believe in god?

even with the new rebranding/softening of this religion, i still don't see how people can believe in him.

the god of the old testimate is an angry murderer who approved rapes and slavery and killed thousands of men, women and children.

I'm no intellectual, my education is poor. But I've spent a little time in the study of philosophy.
All I kept popping up for was to ask some atheists to calm down their claims. As I said, I believe in no gods myself.

It's okay to say you simply lack a belief, but one must then avoid making claims like: "Your god is just make-believe", this is a claim of the falsity of the god.

[Like I said though - your justification for disbelief would cover that claim too. You believe the proposition to be a falsehood due to a lack of evidence where we would expect to see it. No need to claim weak atheism, strong atheism is easily defended. As one might expect from a position with as much support from the evidence as atheism has.]

Anyways, I'll shush, thanks for responding with something other than an empty and undemonstrated claim that I'm stupid.
Here is the same guy from before explaining the burden of justification. (The interview is an hour long, but he gets to the question at the very begining)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_AOhUb3RJc

447

Does Anyone Still Believe in God?

by LaurenM in

do any of you ex-jw's still believe in god?

even with the new rebranding/softening of this religion, i still don't see how people can believe in him.

the god of the old testimate is an angry murderer who approved rapes and slavery and killed thousands of men, women and children.

stuffwotifink

SecretSlaveClass

Perfect. I don't understand why some people have a problem doing what you just did. It does not weaken your position in any way.

If you wanted to, you could hold the position of strong atheism, with the same exact justification you used.

"I believe there is no god because I find no evidence where I would expect to find evidence"

Simple.
No justification beyond that is needed. All anyone is ever doing is justifying their own personal position.
I respect you openly answering the question with intellectual honesty.

447

Does Anyone Still Believe in God?

by LaurenM in

do any of you ex-jw's still believe in god?

even with the new rebranding/softening of this religion, i still don't see how people can believe in him.

the god of the old testimate is an angry murderer who approved rapes and slavery and killed thousands of men, women and children.

stuffwotifink

You're hilarious, really, you deserve at least one gold star.
At least one, maybe even two!

I get that you think I'm an idiot. But the guy's a philosophy teacher, care to detail why he's wrong? At least why you don't agree with his stated position on agnostic atheism?

Why do I doubt it?

447

Does Anyone Still Believe in God?

by LaurenM in

do any of you ex-jw's still believe in god?

even with the new rebranding/softening of this religion, i still don't see how people can believe in him.

the god of the old testimate is an angry murderer who approved rapes and slavery and killed thousands of men, women and children.

stuffwotifink

I'll just leave this here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHtvwnnJKQI

447

Does Anyone Still Believe in God?

by LaurenM in

do any of you ex-jw's still believe in god?

even with the new rebranding/softening of this religion, i still don't see how people can believe in him.

the god of the old testimate is an angry murderer who approved rapes and slavery and killed thousands of men, women and children.

stuffwotifink

Twitch

Thanks. I don't even have a flippin' god belief of my own [I'm an agnostic]. But it just seems like mostly a bunch of either, dishonest or ill informed, communication to me. (I'm not even saying it is, just that it seems so, to me... A scrabble to win a debate that's not even happening and to beat a dead horse that nobody's even trying to ride)

It's boring repeating points that people quite intelligent enough to understand, are pretending have not been made. [Take vivs LOLtastic response above, a perfect example... "U r dum so i iz rite"]

You may enjoy the youtube videos of the guy I posted before. He was raised a jdub by an unbaptised mother, but he's a philosophy something or other, I forget what.
He's a strong atheist, but it intellectually honest and there are some good exchanges in the youtube comments where he is challenged on his opinions... and responds... Honestly.

Anyways, thanks for the shoutout. I'm done here.

447

Does Anyone Still Believe in God?

by LaurenM in

do any of you ex-jw's still believe in god?

even with the new rebranding/softening of this religion, i still don't see how people can believe in him.

the god of the old testimate is an angry murderer who approved rapes and slavery and killed thousands of men, women and children.

stuffwotifink

Asking people to define a god so it can be discussed or debated and then just dismissing any silent or absent god as "irrelevant", "worthless" or "pointless", is empty. (argumentum ad lapidem)
This could be avoided by simply giving a justification for the dismissal

No one is asking you to define god that way, it's simply the best any believer has been able to do. Hardly my fault.

Are you missing the point on purpose?
Once they have "done their best" and posited a silent or absent god, dismissal as "assholegod" or "pointlessgod", is no real response at all. Certainly no disproof.
Doesn't even seem to be trying all that hard to even look like a real reply...

Dismissing someone's god belief as "irrelevant", is no rebuttal. Argumentum ad lapidem.
Dismissing a god as an asshole is also no disproof. Sounds awkwardly like an appeal to emotion (It is after all the only reason offered - and if it is in fact the reason for dismissal - IS an appeal to emotion.).

But as I said, this could be avoided simply by providing a justification of your dismissal, it wouldn't even need to be a good one. After all - it is you asking people to define their god. It is just dishonest to then respond as you are doing.

When Kate Wild said

No you haven't been able to prove to me with evidence that a creator was not responsible for guiding evolution and especially the formation of enantiomers.

You responded

It's been proved, just not to you because you've not bothered to learn enough to understand the evidence. The problem is not lack of proof presented to you, it's lack of effort to understand it on your part.

No. Untrue. You over step yourself.
It has been shown that a god is not in any way necessary.
There is an extreme difference. (Unless you care to detail the "Proof" that some god didn't guide things? Sounds impossible to me, I don't know why you'd claim to have done so.)

Anyway, I have a feeling I'm wasting my time.
Lack a belief... lol.

http://skepticexaminer.com/2015/02/why-the-lack-a-belief-response-is-problematic/

Worth a read, if you are a Lacktheist,.

447

Does Anyone Still Believe in God?

by LaurenM in

do any of you ex-jw's still believe in god?

even with the new rebranding/softening of this religion, i still don't see how people can believe in him.

the god of the old testimate is an angry murderer who approved rapes and slavery and killed thousands of men, women and children.

stuffwotifink

That's the point, stuff. Any god defined ever is either irrelevant or an asshole.

Asking people to define a god so it can be discussed or debated and then just dismissing any silent or absent god as "irrelevant", "worthless" or "pointless", is empty. (argumentum ad lapidem)
This could be avoided by simply giving a justification for the dismissal.

50

The NEW "Bible Teach" book

by Oubliette in

the new "bible teach" book is out!

thetruthbr has posted links for this and several other of the new publications.

as an educator, i am very interested in where the society is heading with their alleged "bible education" program.

stuffwotifink

Page 103
"Truth 1": Jehovah reveals the future to us.

I know if you called a JW out on that claim, they would say that the "Us" is "anyone reading the scriptures quoted".
But I wonder how many older brothers or sisters make mention of 1914 or the UN being "Identified", when reading through that summary in a study.

"Truth 1" uses "us" and "we", when claiming knowledge.
"Truth 2" uses "you" when speaking to the reader.

The implication of privately revealed knowledge seems clear, but remains nicely deniable to anyone even mildly pedantic.
It's so long since I read any of the publications... I didn't expect to get quite so annoyed giving this one a peek. Foolish me.

It is easy to forget how wormtongued these snakes are.

447

Does Anyone Still Believe in God?

by LaurenM in

do any of you ex-jw's still believe in god?

even with the new rebranding/softening of this religion, i still don't see how people can believe in him.

the god of the old testimate is an angry murderer who approved rapes and slavery and killed thousands of men, women and children.

stuffwotifink

EVERY believer must deal with the issue of theodicy at some point in their 'belief' journey. Some come up with excuses, others come to the only logical conclusion: god(s) does/do not exist.

Epicurus' quote sums it up:
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

Why on earth is that a problem to a believer who's god concept is either not omnipotent, not omniscient, or so far from human: it's intervention in human affairs is not to be expected?

I'm not saying that a god exists in any of those forms, but people who believe one does, need pay no attention to the Epicurean Problem. It troubles only classical theology.
[That said, the Problem had a great impact upon me when I first heard it, believer in a all powerful butcher who claimed to be Love, as I was.]