Abaddon:
Also, society allows for a certain latitude in one's behaviour and conduct, within broad constrainsts. These constrainsts tend to be narrow and rerstrictive in religions, especially fundamentalistic religions, and in the case of fundamentalist religions often seek to impose a set of beliefs or opinions on non-believers without the support of facts that would be acceptable in a court of law.
But you are forgetting that societies are the ones who invent religions. They are one and the same; if the individuals are not part of the solution they are part of the problem. Religion is a massive part of may societies, so much so that it reflects in the people’s everyday living, even if they are not religious themselves—they are one and the same, as they all come from the minds of men.
The way that society develops rights and wrongs, and the way that the majority of people in a society subscribe to these values.
My point is why should anyone have to ‘subscribe’, or more importantly ‘comply’, to any of “society’s” views if there is no God? No God=no purposeful design, meaning, or set morals standards. Who can say whether a dog’s opinion is lower than a man’s, a microbe's, or a flea's if all life is a just cosmic accident? Numbers hold no water either—one million people may view X as bad and 27 persons view X as good—if there is no ‘cosmic setter of standards’ then how can any entity say their personal opinion is the best, or the most right? Allowing mass opinions to be the norm, or the obligated “society” accepted view is no different than the same ones making up a religion, even it’s a strict fundamentalist one—neither can be right or wrong if there is no God, they are all just opinions of pointless accidental entities. That is why I said, 'why not view ourselves as gods', as our opinions can never be any more than just opinions, if there is no designer, or purpose to our existence.
I would rather believe in the accumulated knowledge of infallable men that develops over time, then the speculated knowledge of a god that cannot be proved.
Can I have list of these infallible men? I have never had the pleasure of meeting anyone who is infallible—or is that your view of scientists? You ignore the fact that the “political despots” are just as much part of your “society” as they ever were, in science, religion, politics, and social areas—society has just as many corrupt control freaks as it ever did, plus the fact that any opinion is only valid for the one expressing it. How can anyone criticise an oppressive religious fundamentalist society if they are all cosmic accidents without purpose or meaning? Suffering is irrelevant, as any measuring device for ‘good or bad’ is just another construct of the human mind, just the same as a religion in the first place—just like a merry go round!
A long time ago people made up god to explain things. The arguementation was along the lines of "It's what I say, do it!". These people you continue to rail against can enter into structured reasoned arguementation, present facts, etc..
Abaddon: A collective group know as a society has no more or no less right to tell you what to do than a fundamentalist religion—all are meaningless if there is no deity who made us. All you are trying to do is turn mass human’s opinions in to a form of a god’s opinions, therefore the mass must somehow be ‘right’, and therefore we must conform to it. Reasoning is only another human made up tool of judging reality, if there is no God, all the end conclusions are no more valid than the beginning, as there is no great arbiter of “Truth” our there, and all you are doing is making up another set of rules just like a religion, and calling it ‘secular law’, or ‘justice’. If we were not created, then all that society will do is just an everlasting circle or opinions and meaningless values based on yet more opinions—almost a desperation to have a God like reality, but without the God[s]. It will be an eternal conflict as we have seen for all past history. Which society is the “right one”? They all have so many differing opinions and values, who is right? Well if there is no God, then all are right and all are equally wrong. The serial killer is the same as the saint, no one can say “this is right, or that is wrong”, unless you want society to become just like a religion, which many are already, and will continue to be, which dismantles the secular approach from the religious, they are both the same, with all the same problems of control, power, corruption, and misery.
As for my last point about Jesus—it is very relevant—if your “society’s” solution cannot offer a better formulation to life than Jesus then how can you claim it’s invalid? He is just as right as anyone ever has been, even if you believe him to just be a man.
PS. There are scientists who believe in God, they are not all atheists even thought they are heavily pressured to “conform” to the religion of evolution theory.
