Posts by NeonMadman

11

How do Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the Bible?

by brotherdan in

this is the information for the number 3 talk this week.. how do jehovahs witnesses arrive at their explanation of the bible?.

a key factor is that the witnesses really believe that the bible is gods word and that what it contains is there for our instruction.

(2 tim.

NeonMadman

JW's don't interpret the Bible at all. The Watchtower interprets it for them, and they swallow whatever they are told unquestioningly.

143

Did Jesus resurrect Himself?

by brotherdan in

this is a common scripture, but i find it interesting that it is in direct conflict to jw belief.

john 2:19 says, "jesus answered them, "destroy this temple, and i will raise it again in three days.

" the jews replied, "it has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?

NeonMadman

Well, if you want the JW answer, according to the 1952 Watchtower:

*** w52 10/1 p. 606 Questions From Readers ***
This setting shows that Jesus was not talking about his physical body, but “he was talking about the temple of his body”. The temple in Jerusalem that Jesus cleansed represented not Jesus alone but also the body-members over which he is head. Just as the literal temple was not made up of one stone but many, so “the temple of his body” consists of many living stones, with Jesus as the foundation cornerstone: “You yourselves also as living stones are being built up a spiritual house for the purpose of a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.” (1 Pet. 2:4-7, NW) After the Jewish religionists rejected Christ the living stone and broke him down by death on the torture stake, on the third day thereafter Jehovah God raised him up to become the chief cornerstone of the temple of living stones then under preparation. He immediately appeared to his disciples and lifted them up out of their despondency, built them up spiritually so that they could “offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God”. That this building of “the temple of his body” started then and continued through the years that followed is shown by Peter’s use of the present tense when years afterward he said Christ’s followers “are being built up a spiritual house”.

2

Slang - Pondering the historical context of the scriptures

by sabastious in

all cultures have slang.. sometimes it is used to get a point across without having to describe it in detail.. for instance take this linguistic exchange:.

jeff: hey alex, i wanted to talk to you about the party tonight-.

alex: don't even go there, jeff!.

NeonMadman

My point is that Jehovah's Witnesses take the Bible out of historical context ALL THE TIME.
They will say in regards to disfellowshipped ones "do not even say a greeting to them." And they point at it and say "See! It's right there plain and simple!"

The catch, there, of course is that there's nothing in that text (2 John 9-11) about "disfellowshipped ones." In context, John is writing about heretical itinerant teachers, most likely of a Docetist persuasion, who denied the bodily incarnation of Christ. The part about not receiving them into your home was very likely a reference to home churches - not that they had to be totally shunned, but that they should not be welcomed as teachers or offered support and encouragement. The Greek chairo, translated "greeting" in the NWT, means more than a simple "hello"; it implies support and encouragement.

72

Public Talk Outlines

by Lady Lee in

i have been collecting the public talk outlines.

i have almost all of them but there are a few missing.

i have tiles for some but just numbers for others.

NeonMadman

No.-1lLAPPRECIATING MARVELS OF GOD’S CREATION in the first group should be #114.

72

Public Talk Outlines

by Lady Lee in

i have been collecting the public talk outlines.

i have almost all of them but there are a few missing.

i have tiles for some but just numbers for others.

NeonMadman

I have this list by topic, not sure if it's current:

BIBLE / GOD
No.4-EVIDENCE OF GOD IN THE WORLD AROUND US
N0.-26-1S IT TIME FOR GOD TO RULE THE WORLD?
No.-54-BUILD YOUR FAITH IN MAN’S MAKER
No.-80-DOES YOUR HOPE REST ON SCIENCE OR THE BIBLE?
No.-8&WHY LIVE BY BIBLE STANDARDS?
No.-99-WHY YOU CAN TRUST THE BIBLE
N-100-TRUE FRIENDSHIP WITH GOD AND NEIGHBOUR
No.-101-JEHOVAH-THE GRAND CREATOR
No.-1lLAPPRECIATING MARVELS OF GOD’S CREATION
No.-124-BASIS FOR CONFIDENCE IN THE BIBLE’S DIVINE AUTHORSHIP

CHRISTIAN STANDARDS / QUALITIES
No.-7-MERCY, A DOMINANT QUALITY OF TRUE CHRISTIANS
No.-10-CONDUCTING OURSELVES HONESTLY AT ALL TIMES
No.-l>RESPECT FOR AUTHORITY IS A SAFEGUARD FOR YOU
NO.-14-A CLEAN PEOPLE HONORS JEHOVAH.
No.-15-AS CHRISTIANS, WE CARE ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE
No.-48-MEETING THE TEST OF CHRISTIAN LOYALTY
No.-68-DO YOU HARBOR RESENTMENT, OR DO YOU FORGIVE?
No.-69-RENEWING THE SPIRIT OF SELF-SACRIFICE
No.-72LOVE IDENTIFIES THE TRUE CHRISTIAN CONGREGATION
N-76 JEALOUSY-PROPER AND IMPROPER
N-77-FOLLOW THE COURSE OF HOSPITALITY
No-78-SERVE JEHOVAH WITH A JOYFUL HEART
No-103-YOU CAN FIND JOY IN SERVING GOD
No-112-HOW TO EXPRESS LOVE IN A LAWLESS WORLD

EVANGELIZING / MINISTRY
NO -17-GLORIFYING GOD WITH ALL WE HAVE
N-63-DO YOU HAVE THE EVANGELIZING SPIRIT?
Ne65-FINDING HONOR AND JOY IN GOD’S MINISTRY
No46-SLAVE FOR THE MASTER OF THE HARVEST
No81-WHO ARE QUALIFIED AS MINISTERS OF GOD?

FAITH / SPIRTUALITY
No 1 - HOW WELL DO YOU KNOW GOD?
Ne9-NEVER BECOME DULL IN YOUR HEARING
No-16-KEEP GROWING IN YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD
N-18-ARE YOU REALLY MAKING JEHOVAH YOUR STRONGHOLD?
N-22-ARE YOU CONTENT WITH JEHOVAH’S PROVISIONS?
N-31-HAPPY THOUGH HUNGRY-HOW CAN IT BE?
N-39-BE CONFIDENT OF DIVINE VICTORY!
No 46-MAINTAIN YOUR CONFIDENCE FIRM TO THE END
No47-TAKING TIME TO MEDITATE ON SPIRITUAL THINGS
N-70-MAKE JEHOVAH YOUR CONFIDENCE
N-71-HOW TO KEEP SPIRITUALLY AWAKE
No-7LJEHOVAH’S EYES ARE UPON US
No87-WHAT IS YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD?

FAMILY / YOUTH
NO-SFAMILY LIFE THAT WARMS THE HEART
NO-13-A GODLY VIEW OF SEX AND MARRIAGE
Ne27-GETTING MARRIAGE OFF TO A GOOD START
No-28-SHOW RESPECT AND LOVE IN YOUR MARRIAGE
No-29-RESPONSIBILITIES AND REWARDS OF PARENTHOOD
Ne30-COMMUNICATION- WITHIN THE FAMILY AND WITH GOD
N-lOLPARENTS-ARE YOU BUILDING WITH FIRE-RESISTANT MATERIALS?
No-110-GOD COMES FIRST IN SUCCESSFUL FAMILY LIFE
Ne113-HOW CAN YOUTHS COPE WITH TODAY’S CRISIS?
No-118-LOOKING AT YOUTHS FROM JEHOVAH’S STANDPOINT

KINGDOM / PARADISE
No-19-YOUR FUTURE-HOW CAN IT BE KNOWN?
Ne21-HOW DO YOU FIT INTO THE KINGDOM ARRANGEMENT?
No-23-LIFE DOES HAVE A PURPOSE
No-24-WHAT GOD’S RULERSHIP CAN DO
No-35-CAN YOU LIVE FOREVER? WILL YOU?
NO-37-DECIDE NOW FOR DIVINE RULERSHIP
No-42-HOW THE KINGDOM OF GOD EFFECTS YOU
No-44-KEEP SEEKING GOD’S KINGDOM
No47-“HAVE FAITH IN THE GOOD NEWS”
NO49-A CLEANSED EARTH-WILL YOU LIVE TO SEE IT?
NO-60-HOW PURPOSEFUL IS YOU LIFE?
No 61-ON WHOSE PROMISES DO YOU RELY?
No-62-THE ONLY CURE FOR SICK MANKIND
No-75-DO YOU RECOGNIZE JEHOVAH’S SOVEREIGNTY IN YOUR PERSONAL LIFE?
NO 85- GOOD NEWS IN A VIOLENT WORLD
NO-90-REACH OUT FOR THE REAL LIFE!
No-91-THE MESSIAH’S PRESENCE AND HIS RULE
No-109-THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS NEAR
No-111-WHAT DOES THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS ACCOMPLISH?
Ne120WHY SUBMIT TO GOD’S RULERSHIP NOW
NO-122.- GLOBAL PEACE -FROM WHAT SOURCE?

LAST DAYS / GOD’S JUDGMENT
No-2-WILL YOU BE A SURVIVOR OF THE LAST DAYS?
No 6-THE FLOOD OF NOAH’S DAY HAS MEANING FOR US
No-20-1s IT TIME FOR GOD TO RULE THE WORLD?
No-34-ARE YOU “MARKED” FOR SURVIVAL?
No-38-ACT WISELY AS THE END DRAWS NEAR
N040-WHAT THE NEAR FUTURE HOLDS!
Ne41-“STAND STILL AND SEE THE SALVATION OF JEHOVAH”
No-84-WILL YOU ESCAPE THIS WORLD’S DESTINY?
No-93- “ACTS OF G0D”-HOW DO YOU VIEW THEM”?
NO-102-PAYING ATTENTION TO THE PROPHETIC WORD
NO-106-RUINING THE EARTH BRINGS DIVINE RETRIBUTION
NO-108-OVERCOMING FEAR OF THE FUTURE
No-121- A WORLDWIDE BROTHERHOOD SAVED FROM CALAMITY

RELIGION / WORSHIP
NO-3- SERVING WITH JEHOVAH’S UNIFIED ORGANIZATION
Ne8-LIVING, NOT FOR SELF, BUT TO DO GOD’S WILL
NO-36-1s THIS LIFE ALL THERE IS?
NO 43-ARE YOU DOING WHAT GOD REQUIRES OF YOU?
NO-45-FOLLOW THE WAY TO LIFE
No-52-WHO IS YOUR GOD?
N e 55 W H A T KIND OF NAME ARE YOU MAKING WITH GOD?
No-56-INTO THE NEW WORLD UNDER CHRIST’S LEADERSHIP
No-58-HOW SHOULD YOU SERVE GOD?
NO-82-JEHOVAH AND CHRIST-ARE THEY PART OF A TRINITY?
No43-RELIGION’S TIME OF JUDGMENT
No-86-PRAYERS THAT ARE HEARD BY GOD
N-89-COME’ YOU WHO THIRST FOR THE TRUTH!
No-92-RELIGION’S ROLE IN WORLD AFFAIRS
No-94-TRUE RELIGION MEETS THE NEEDS OF HUMAN SOCIETY
No-95-THE BIBLE’S VIEW OF SPIRITISTIC PRACTICES
NO-96-FALSE RELIGION’S END IS NEAR

TRIALS / PROBLEMS
No-32-COPING WITH LIFE’S ANXIETIES
NO-50-DECISIONS YOU FACGHOW WILL YOU MAKE THEM?
No-57-BEARlNG UP UNDER PERSECUTION
NO-73-ACQUIRING A HEART OF WISDOM
No-105-GAINING COMFORT IN ALL OUR TRIBULATIONS
No-117-HOW TO CONQUER EVIL WITH GOOD

WORLD, NO PART OF
No-11-“NO PART OF THE WORLD “-IN IMITATION OF CHRIST
No-25-RESISTING THE SPIRIT OF THE WORLD
No-33-WHAT IS BEHIND THE SPIRIT OF REBELLION?
No-51-IS THE TRUTH TRANSFORMING YOUR LIFE?
No-53-DOES YOUR THINKING AGREE WITH GOD’S?
No-59-YOU WILL REAP WHAT YOU SOW
NO. 64-LOVERS OF PLEASURE OR LOVERS OF GOD?
N-79-FRIENDSHIP WITH GOD, FRIENDSHIP WITH THE WORLD-WHICH WILL YOU CHOOSE?
No-97-REMAINING BLAMELESS AMID A CROOKED GENERATION
No-98-KEEP CLEAN FROM WORLDLY DEFILEMENTS
Ne107-HOLD A GOOD CONSCIENCE IN A SINFUL WORLD
No-115-HOW TO PROTECT OURSELVES FROM SATAN’S SNARES
NO-116-CHOOSE YOUR ASSOCIATES WISELY!
NO-119-CHRISTIAN SEPARATENESS FROM THE WORLD-WHY BENEFICIAL?
No-123-WHY CHRISTIANS MUST BE DIFFERENT

12

"Church"

by OnTheWayOut in

i hadn't read any other comments that spoke of a movement among jw's but i have to ask.. background in italics before the point of the thread:.

i was in the company of my never-ever-a-jw sister and my jw mother.

sis was exposed to the religion as a youth just as i was, but neither of us stuck with the jw's when mom was df'ed in 1976 when armageddon didn't come and mom went back to the world.

NeonMadman

Yes, serein, church means place of worship, but not to a JW.

A JW would argue that, biblically, the word "church" means a congregation of people, not a place of worship, and he/she would be correct. The problem is that we are speaking modern English, not biblical Greek, so there is no need to confine the term to what it meant in biblical times.

12

"Church"

by OnTheWayOut in

i hadn't read any other comments that spoke of a movement among jw's but i have to ask.. background in italics before the point of the thread:.

i was in the company of my never-ever-a-jw sister and my jw mother.

sis was exposed to the religion as a youth just as i was, but neither of us stuck with the jw's when mom was df'ed in 1976 when armageddon didn't come and mom went back to the world.

NeonMadman

She may simply be trying to use language that a non-JW would be familiar with. I once knew a JW who, when speaking with outsiders, would refer to field service as "church work." It was a bit odd to hear a JW use that sort of language, but I understood what he was trying to do. A non-JW would find terms like "Kingdom Hall" and "field service" to be odd and suspicious, but pretty much everyone understands what "church work" is.

26

Finally the FDS tells us why they made the new song book.

by life is to short in

the dec 15th wt finally tells us why the new song book.

who would think it was new light that made them have to change there book but here it is.. paragraph 15 says "as times passes, refinements are made in our understanding of the sciptures.

proverbs 4:18 says: "the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established.

NeonMadman

Don't forget the new world society...........

Wasn't that the same as "new world" in the 50's? I think that term had mostly gone out of use when I became a JW in 1969. We mostly talked about the "new system of things." (Which term, by the way, references the same Bible texts as "new world," but brings them into the New World Translation era)

26

Finally the FDS tells us why they made the new song book.

by life is to short in

the dec 15th wt finally tells us why the new song book.

who would think it was new light that made them have to change there book but here it is.. paragraph 15 says "as times passes, refinements are made in our understanding of the sciptures.

proverbs 4:18 says: "the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established.

NeonMadman

Yawn...

2010: "As times passes, refinements are made in our understanding of the Sciptures. Proverbs 4:18 says: "The path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established." Increased light inevitably leads to adjustments in the way in which we 'sing the truth.' For the past 25 years, Jehovah's Witnesses in many lands have enjoyed using the songbook entitled Sing Praises to Jehovah.* In the years since that book was first published, the light has been getting brighter on a number of topics, and some of the expression used in that songbook have become outdated. For example, we no longer speak of "the new order" but of "the new world." And we now state that Jehovah's name will be "sanctified," not "vindicated." Clearly, from a doctrinal standpoint, there has been a need to bring our songbook up-to-date.

1986: Two new melodies were composed for favorite words because it was learned that the melodies previously used had not been composed by Witnesses. How could that have happened? A composer may hear a little-known tune. When it later comes to his mind, he might imagine that he composed it. As the light shining on God’s truth became ever brighter in harmony with Proverbs 4:18, it was found necessary to change songs that had been in previous songbooks. That was true with the current Song 215. In 1974 we came to understand that Noah’s ark pictured our spiritual paradise, not the Kingdom. (See The Watchtower, 1974, page 634.) So the line in the older songbook “Flee at once to the ark of salvation, To the Kingdom of God that is here!” was changed to “Act at once! Make a full dedication; Serve the Kingdom of God that is here.”Among other refinements in the interest of accuracy are the following: In the new system of things, there will be no more “evils” to dread, rather than no more “demons” to dread, for God’s people do not dread demons. (Song 129) In line with Jesus’ words at Matthew 6:22, Song 26 admonishes us to ‘keep our eye simple’ rather than ‘our sight single.’In several instances a certain melody was given a new set of words that appeared to be more effective and useful. Song 60, “God’s Kingdom of a Thousand Years,” uses the melody of Song 86 in the previous songbook. The lyrics for Song 2, “Obeying God Rather Than Men,” are an expansion of those of former Song 79. It seemed that this theme deserved a full page rather than a half page.

1966:Proverbs 4:18 tells us that “the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established.” This Scriptural principle has made it advisable to publish a new songbook, for with the ever-increasing light there are new truths, new themes, clearer understanding and change of emphasis. And so now again, in 1966, after sixteen years, the publishing agency of Jehovah’s people, the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, has produced a new songbook entitled “Singing and Accompanying Yourselves with Music in Your Hearts.”...On the other hand, all music known to have originated with Babylon the Great has been dropped, as have the few remaining melodies from secular or “classical” sources, because of their worldly associations. Any similarity of melodies in the new songbook to worldly melodies would be offset by distracting differences.

Same old, same old...

26

Finally the FDS tells us why they made the new song book.

by life is to short in

the dec 15th wt finally tells us why the new song book.

who would think it was new light that made them have to change there book but here it is.. paragraph 15 says "as times passes, refinements are made in our understanding of the sciptures.

proverbs 4:18 says: "the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established.

NeonMadman

"New World" was the expression used in the 1950s and 1960s.

Then it was "new system," then "new order." Wonder if they will recycle those again too?