Posts by Ucantnome

'In 1968 the belief was the tribulation had started in 1914 and had been cut short . The brother who brought my parents,in told them one day u will put the radio on and Armageddon will have started just like those roman armies that returned to Jerusalem in 70.'

I believe that this view was changed in 1970 and the Watchtower of January 15th had an article regarding it. On pages 52 it makes the comment that in the Watchtower of May 1st 1925 the suggestion was set out that the tribulation had begun in 1914 and God had stopped the World War 1 in November 1918 allowing an interval of activity of the anointed remnant for sheep like ones to be saved.

It mentions that at this time the bible timetable presented in the 1889 book The Time is at Hand was thought to be correct and it says 'Hence it was not calculated that six thousand years or man's life on earth were yet to end during the 1970's'

It further mentions that the interval between the first part of the tribulation is 51 years and not over if this view was correct.

On page 53 it says if the suggest for cutting short the great tribulation in the middle were true as suggested in 1925 then 'Then the time interval between the opening part of the "great tribulation' and the closing Armageddon part thereof will prove to be around five times as long as the length of the "great tribulation"

My mathematic skills are not particularly good but this 'will prove to be five times as long' is I think arrived at that 51 years had passed by since 1918 and the war was about 4 years and there was six years approx. to autumn of 1975 from this January Watchtower which would make ten years if Armageddon was to start soon, 5 times 10 is 50, about five times as long. Armageddon needing to be over by autumn 1975 so as not to encroach on the last 1000 years of Christ's reign.

Maybe not but the effect it had on my parents that although the belief had changed they still firmly believed that the end would come by the autumn of 1975. My father had a good job and was reasonably intelligent and had served as a servant and elder conducting the Watchtower study with pioneer children. In the year that this Watchtower change came about he made a decision to move and simplify his life somewhat which would enable him and us to do more in the 'truth' which we did. We didn't even have a television for some years. However if he had retained the house he sold then his estate would have been worth at least 4 times what it was when he died. His children lost out in a financial way but not just us as my children recently pointed out how it has and will effect them. This doesn't include the fact that I turned down a pension policy many years ago because I wouldn't be needing one due to the belief in the generation that will not pass away. I finished my education early due to the 1975 so as to pioneer. Not for my own personal gain. But I have also had to argue that it was due to the teachings of the Watchtower and not something I or my parents read into it that I made the decisions in my life. When I was leaving the JW and the elders came they clearly stated it was nothing to do with the Watchtower. Admittedly I could be wrong on some things.

84

1975 failed prediction?

by Garrett in

jw
friends

heyo,.

your favorite garrett here.

so, i'm about to have an elder tell me allll about the failed 1975 doctrine.

Ucantnome

In 1968 the belief was the tribulation had started in 1914 and had been cut short . The brother who brought my parents,in told them one day u will put the radio on and Armageddon will have started just like those roman armies that returned to Jerusalem in 70. So they were expecting a literal Armageddon which never came in there lifetme. Just like it didn't come in my great grandfathers day who lived at the time of Russel with his 1874

84

1975 failed prediction?

by Garrett in

jw
friends

heyo,.

your favorite garrett here.

so, i'm about to have an elder tell me allll about the failed 1975 doctrine.

Ucantnome

SimonSays in the quotes I put in my post from the book the Watchtower published in 1974 it said it Armageddon would be before the last thousand years of the 7000 year creative day and we had 6000 in 1975.

84

1975 failed prediction?

by Garrett in

jw
friends

heyo,.

your favorite garrett here.

so, i'm about to have an elder tell me allll about the failed 1975 doctrine.

Ucantnome

The brothers also appreciated the candor of this same talk, which acknowledged the Society’s responsibility for some of the disappointment a number felt regarding 1975

Some?

This was the Year book published by the Watchtower who had taught about the 6000 years. Starting back in the 1800's. and they say brothers appreciated that they took responsibility for 'some' of the disappointment.

Maybe they spoke to the wrong brothers. lol.

84

1975 failed prediction?

by Garrett in

jw
friends

heyo,.

your favorite garrett here.

so, i'm about to have an elder tell me allll about the failed 1975 doctrine.

Ucantnome

But just like everything else, those JW’s that were new or didn’t understand the premise took 1975 to mean the fulfillment of Christ presence and overstepped their expectations, by overshadowing what had been published earlier.

this was from your earlier post SimonSays this is from the Watchtower that you mentioned of March 1980

In saying "anyone", the Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah's Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date.'

It includes all disappointed ones including those who published the material. Why would they be disappointed if it was only new ones who had overstepped their expectations?

84

1975 failed prediction?

by Garrett in

jw
friends

heyo,.

your favorite garrett here.

so, i'm about to have an elder tell me allll about the failed 1975 doctrine.

Ucantnome

5 minutes ago

SimonSays

Research the Watchtower March 15, 1980 pages 17-18 U.S. version

I have the Watchtower that you mention and it quotes the 1976 where it says

'...it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises." In saying "anyone", the Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah's Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date.'

I don't have the yearbook at hand.

I don't think it had anything to do with 'but that his own understanding' I didn't come up with the 6000 years I wasn't alive in 1886 when it was tied to 1874 or in the 1940's when it was moved to the 1970. I understood they were appointed to do a job

My salvation was tied i understood to supporting Christ brothers, doing good to them, the primary way was supporting them in the preaching work. They were the appointed commissioned ones and at the time of this Watchtower they were still teaching that the generation that saw the events of 1914 would not pass away and my salvation was tied to spreading this as it was in the front of the Awake.

84

1975 failed prediction?

by Garrett in

jw
friends

heyo,.

your favorite garrett here.

so, i'm about to have an elder tell me allll about the failed 1975 doctrine.

Ucantnome

SimonSays

But just like everything else, those JW’s that were new or didn’t understand the premise took 1975 to mean the fulfillment of Christ presence and overstepped their expectations,

I remember in 1975 the field service overseer saying on a Thursday night meeting that we only have months left. in another congregation some years earlier according to my father who attended a elder meeting where the presiding overseer expressed concern that some were not expecting the end by 75. These were not new JW's they were appointed by holy spirit as older men in a spiritual way.

Admittedly you do get some with maybe shall I say 'apostate' leanings who do not accept the spiritual food from the faithful slave,.

84

1975 failed prediction?

by Garrett in

jw
friends

heyo,.

your favorite garrett here.

so, i'm about to have an elder tell me allll about the failed 1975 doctrine.

Ucantnome

Ephesians 3:11 This is according to the eternal purpose that he formed in connection with the Christ, Jesus our Lord, by means of whom we have this freeness of speech and free access with confidence through our faith in him. (NWT)

I think is a key scripture regarding 1975.

SimonSays mentions the book Life Everlasting and I remember discussing this with an elder some years ago when he came to discuss something i'd said. The book published in 1974 God's "Eternal Purpose" Now Triumphing For Man's Good on page 9 mentions Ephesians 3:11 and how in the Emphatic Diaglott it reads "according to a plan of the ages, which he formed" Based on this different translation the Watchtower of 1881 published an article The Plan of the Ages and gave and explanation of the Chart of the Ages evidently a similar chart was in the book The Divine Plan of the Ages published in 1886.

There is I believe a connection therefore between this book in 1974 with the words Eternal Purpose in the title and the book in 1886 with the words Divine Plan in.

The book in 1974 I don't believe mentions the date 1975 however it does talk about the 7th creative day and that Armageddon will not be part of the last thousand years of the 7th creative day but will occur before it and that 6000 years of the 7000 years had almost expired.

page 131
"The first half or 'evening' period of God's seventh creative 'day' was now closing, 3,500 years from the creation of Adam and Eve. The morning of this creative 'day' was due to begin at 526 B.C.E."
This was under the heading, "Morning of the seventh Creative day begins 526 B.C.E."
Page 51
"Evening of the Seventh Creative Day begins 4026 B.C.E."
Page 53
"At the beginning of this 'seventh day' almost six thousand years ago God 'proceeded to bless the seventh day and make it sacred.'"
The last chapter of the book is "Making the Seventh Creative 'Day' Sacred" page 187.
on page 189 talking about Satan the Devil it reads,
"For six thousand years he and his seed have been allowed to continue their effort to make it seem to be a cursed day unsacred... During the thousand years that the Great Serpent and his demon seed are abyssed, Jehovah will reverse all the wickedness."
Page 190
"...God's seventh creative day will end up blessed, sacred, sanctified. Jehovah having blessed that day six thousand years ago..."

Page 186
"With all his earthly seed destroyed at Har-Magedon,"

it then asks the question "Are the original serpent and his invisible demonic seed to be left on the loose in the vicinity of our earth down to which they have been ousted from heaven? No!"
"By removing the Serpent and his demons from the nieghborhood of the earth and hurling them into the abyss and sealing them up there, bound as with chains for the next thousand years. Revelation 20:1-3 pictures this, not as a part of the war at Har-magedon, but as a follow up of that war."
In the Watchtower publication God's Kingdom of A Thousand Years Has Approached pages 206-211 it tells how the editor and publisher of Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence calculated the presence of parousia of the heavenly Bridegroom began in the year 1874 based on the six thousand years since Adam and Eve sinned.
On page 209 it says that this was changed in 1943 in the book The Truth Shall Make You Free and this moved the six thousand years into the 1970's
So 1975 arrived at by the six thousand years calculation seems to have been the second time that the calculation of six thousand years had led to wrong conclusions. I think if one takes the dates given in the book and does the maths calculations with that Armageddon is not part of the last one thousand years of Christ's reign and the fact the book was published in 1974 in my opinion it is difficult to come to any other conclusion than that Armageddon must occur by the autumn of 1975 even though the date may not be given.

56

Who REALLY believed in the idea of living forever on earth??

by stuckinarut2 in

seriously.....even when you were 100% in "the truth", did you really believe in living forever?

?

Ucantnome

yes I believed it was the truth we could live forever in a paradise earth I also had faith that I would be living in the thousand year reign of Christ a long time ago as did my father.

I think my father shared the view expressed here in Man's Salvation Out of World Distress At Hand! (1975 WTB&TS Page 28/29) after quoting the apostle Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 15:18,19 and commenting that Paul the apostle had suffered much persecution for his preaching 'that if Paul were a liar, then as he wrote: ... "we are of all men most to be pitied." '

'After all that we have gone through since 1914, our generation would be, of all generations, the "most to be pitied"
Think of it, though! Worthy ones of this generation of mankind will be saved alive out of the rest of this world distress so as to survive the worst of it and enter into God's Messianic new system of things and not need a resurrection from the dead to life here on earth!'

Unfortunately he will need a resurrection although he lived more than his three score year and ten and was born more than a decade later after the first world war. Hopefully the resurrection hope preached by the Apostle Paul is a better hope than the one my father had and taught me.