Ucantnome

Joined

• started 11 topics
• posted 2,398 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Ucantnome

• 
  55

  What is the "sign" of "Christ's Invisible Presence?"

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wts teaches, that from 1914 onward, a sign has been evident, which is proof of god's kingdom.

  jw profess to see that sign.

  a "sign" means evidence from god.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ucantnome

  Uncantone, help me out on this one. What do you mean? Not being rhetorical. Kindly state your argument.

  When I was baptised I understood the 'sign' as

  'the act of God's Son in receiving authority from his Sovereign Father to rule in an everlasting kingdom. This event brought the establishment or "birth of his kingly rule.

  The primary part of the composite sign being the preaching. Gathering the anointed and other sheep. Isaiah 11:10-13 and the apostle Paul showed this having fulfilment in his day with the gentiles Romans 15. In Isaiah the word is signal or standard with the idea of gathering.This gathering to the mountain of Jehovah results in the spiritual paradise (i think)

  The Watchtower has on it's cover 'Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom' In 1879 C T Russell published Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence and the virgin class went forward to meet the heavenly Bridegroom in 1874 believing him to be present.

  The parable of the ten virgins was given as part of the answer to the question recorded at Matt. 24:3 (God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached, WT1973 pg205)

  In 1914 they expected to meet the Bridegroom in heaven at the end of the Gentile times. !874 was arrived at by the 6000 years chronology. This was moved in the 1940's to the mid seventies. When Armageddon was expected and again they would have expected to meet the Bridgroom. Both times the virgins were in error in my opinion. Also in my opinion this would nullify the preaching as any sign.
  
  
• 
  55

  What is the "sign" of "Christ's Invisible Presence?"

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wts teaches, that from 1914 onward, a sign has been evident, which is proof of god's kingdom.

  jw profess to see that sign.

  a "sign" means evidence from god.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ucantnome

  I think this line in my post, should include this quote from the book that i quoted from.

  and I dont believe Christ was present in 1874 (include here)and so I find it difficult to be sure regarding the application of the 10 virgins as part of the sign and don't feel that it's 'indisputable' as I think

  
  

  'From that understanding of matters, the "chaste virgin" class began going forth to meet the heavenly Bridegroom in the year 1874, as they believed him to have arrived in that year and to be from then on invisibly present'

  I believe the same 6000 years chronology also led to 1975 something that came from the faithful slave/ bridegroom class if I'm not mistaken and so in my view the ten virgins fulfilment from 1914 as part of the sign could be disputed i think.

  
  
• 
  55

  What is the "sign" of "Christ's Invisible Presence?"

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wts teaches, that from 1914 onward, a sign has been evident, which is proof of god's kingdom.

  jw profess to see that sign.

  a "sign" means evidence from god.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ucantnome

  Fisherman

  A "Sign" is remarkable evidence from God. The WT says says that ii is indisputable, hence it is inexcusable not "see" it.

  The parable of the 10 virgins was given as part of the answer to the question recorded at Matt. 24:3 (God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached, WT1973 pg205)

  'The events set out in detail above were not performed in a corner, out of sight in an obscure spot, but have been taking place in the open where observing persons could take not of them, regardless of whether they understood their significance or not.'

  pg 187.

  'From that understanding of matters, the "chaste virgin" class began going forth to meet the heavenly Bridegroom in the year 1874, as they believed him to have arrived in that year and to be from then on invisibly present. They felt that they were already living in the invisible presence of the Bridegroom. Due to this fact, when Charles T. Russell began publishing his own religious magazine in July of 1879, he published it under the title "Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence.'

  pg 341.

  '...did that composite "faithful and discreet slave" first come into existence during his "presence" or parousia from 1914 onward?

  No: for Jesus illustration portrays the lord of the "slave" as going away , as a "man travelling abroad that left his house and gave the authority to his slaves,"...

  It was more than nineteen hundred years ago at his ascension to heaven that the "master" of the composite "slave" went away, leaving the "slave" with instructions to feed the "domestics" '

  pg 346.

  The question is asked regarding C T Russell '(b) What record proves that he served as a faithful part of that "servant " class?'

  and in the paragraph it says,

  'It cannot be successfully disputed that, till his death in 1916, he lovingly served as a part of the "faithful and discreet slave" class in giving to the Master's domestics "their food at the proper time." '

  Now if I understand correctly what David Splane is saying in the video that i viewed there is no 1900 year old slave

  and I dont believe Christ was present in 1874 and so I find it difficult to be sure regarding the application of the 10 virgins as part of the sign and don't feel that it's 'indisputable' as I think

  'It cannot be successfully disputed that, till his death in 1916, he lovingly served as a part of the "faithful and discreet slave" class in giving to the Master's domestics "their food at the proper time." '

  could now be disputed.
• 
  63

  Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh

  by WildeLover in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/is-watchtower-imploding-10-reasons-why-the-end-could-be-nigh.

  i dont know how to hyperlink the link above,.

  it's a link to an article by cedars on the possibility of the wt imploding?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ucantnome

  Is Watchtower imploding?

  nah

  
  
• 
  323

  Question and answers for fisherperson regardingy time at bethel

  by _Morpheus in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  so fisherperson sent me a pm asking a bunch of questions re my time at beth hell.

  rather than respond in a pm i will post the q/a here as i have nothing to hide.

  q:what years did you serve in brooklyn bethel?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ucantnome

  fisherperson

  who is this?
• 
  55

  What is the "sign" of "Christ's Invisible Presence?"

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wts teaches, that from 1914 onward, a sign has been evident, which is proof of god's kingdom.

  jw profess to see that sign.

  a "sign" means evidence from god.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ucantnome

  • What gets presented or said from god's channel must be true, honest and valuable.

    maybe it's sort of like Schrodinger's cat
• 
  55

  What is the "sign" of "Christ's Invisible Presence?"

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wts teaches, that from 1914 onward, a sign has been evident, which is proof of god's kingdom.

  jw profess to see that sign.

  a "sign" means evidence from god.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ucantnome

  I spoke to an elder a short while ago regarding the preaching, been an elder for many years, and he felt that if 1914 was changed it wouldn't matter. I disagreed. This was in regard to 20 years difference.
• 
  16

  A Tired Child is Better than a Dead Child

  by snugglebunny in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  incredibly, fred franz once announced at a district convention: "yesterday a sister approached me and said, brother franz, why do we have to keep our children up so late just so they can attend the meetings?

  i responded sister ***, would you rather have a tired child or a dead child?".

  *cue rapturous applause*.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ucantnome

  we had to walk home after the thursday night meeting in the early sixties came home to a cold house no central heating
• 
  16

  A Tired Child is Better than a Dead Child

  by snugglebunny in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  incredibly, fred franz once announced at a district convention: "yesterday a sister approached me and said, brother franz, why do we have to keep our children up so late just so they can attend the meetings?

  i responded sister ***, would you rather have a tired child or a dead child?".

  *cue rapturous applause*.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ucantnome

  i remember being like the kid on the floor
• 
  55

  What is the "sign" of "Christ's Invisible Presence?"

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wts teaches, that from 1914 onward, a sign has been evident, which is proof of god's kingdom.

  jw profess to see that sign.

  a "sign" means evidence from god.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ucantnome

  When I was baptised I understood the 'sign' as

  'the act of God's Son in receiving authority from his Sovereign Father to rule in an everlasting kingdom. This event brought the establishment or "birth of his kingly rule.

  ...This visible sign follows after and results from the invisible "sign of the Son of man," since it is composed of the many events and conditions that the Bible fore told would follow and result from the establishment of Christ's Kingdom rule it is , therefore a composite sign...'(WT 1966 Jan 15 pg 38)

  The sign being in verse 30 of Matthew 24.

  In the book "Things In Which It Is Impossible For God To Lie" (WT 1965) page 339 in the footnote it mentions that the Greek word for 'sign' is the Greek Septuagint of the Hebrew scriptures is given the meaning of 'standard, signal, ensign.' (Isaiah 11:12) and 'The Bible translation by Dr. Ferrar Fenton uses the word "signal" in Matthew 24:3,30.'

  The book Man's Salvation Out of World Distress At Hand! (WT 1975) subheading "A Signal For The Peoples" page 197 after quoting Isaiah 11:10 it says, It is "in that day," since the Gentile times ended in 1914 C.E that this must occur.

  page 198

  However, the prophecy applies more particularly "in that day." We have been in that day since the birth of God's Messianic kingdom in the heavens in 1914 C.E. Then the glorified Jesus Christ, "the root of Jesse," stood up in Kingdom authority to deal with all the nations of the earth. (Matthew 25;31,32)

  Fisherman your questions

  What is the "sign" of "Christ's Invisible Presence?"

  Have you seen "the sign" that the WTS refers to as the sign that people refuse to see and will be forced to see when the "son of man is revealed?"

  I agreed at my baptism with the Watchtower in 1966 when it said

  'There is one sign today that is of the highest importance to every person on earth. For us to see it, to understand it correctly and to act in accord with it promptly will spell the difference between life and death for each of us.'

  and i was one who was part of 'over a million persons in all parts of the globe today acknowledge that they have been enabled to "see" "the sign of the Son of Man" and recognize its meaning' (WT 1966)

  However in the February 15th 1994 Watchtower page 20 it says,

  'But Matthew 24:30 points forward to a further "sign" appearing in the future, that of "the Son of Man," and all nations will be compelled to take note.

  In answer to your question I am unsure due to how i understand the changed view and can no longer support them in preaching.