Posts by Ucantnome

51

What were you never going to do in "This system" But did it?

by karter in

jw
friends

finish school.. finish my apprenticeship (why are you doing that brother karter you will never finish it in this system).. buy a house.. pay the house off.. karter..

Another generation....

by joey jojo in

it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

Another generation....

by joey jojo in

it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

Ucantnome

i wasn't asking for you to give me evidence I was asking for you to explain what the evidence would or could be?

maybe an example?

241

Another generation....

by joey jojo in

it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

Ucantnome

What I was alluding to is evidence from God which does not require faith, it establishes it.

Maybe you would enlighten me about the evidence, maybe in another thread.

22

How was your wedding?

by BeautifulMind in

jw
friends

how was your wedding?

did you have a jw wedding or something different?

my wedding was not what either of us wanted at first, but it turned out very lovely.

we were married in the kingdom hall my parents didn't attend the reception was about a hundred a little music no dancing no speeches sandwiches we we then went to a very posh hotel and had dinner. we always said if we were to do it again even when we were witnesses we wouldn't use the hall or invite more two or three

241

Another generation....

by joey jojo in

it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

Ucantnome

Thank you Fisherman for your replies I think you give some interesting points for thought.

I understand that you were talking to TD. However as the thread was, Another generation, and the opening paragraph said

Remember those guys? The ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.

I think that my father's accepting the good news preached by Jehovah's Witnesses that included this teaching is relevant to the thread.

In an earlier post on this thread I quoted from the book Man's Salvation Out of World Distress At Hand(1975 Watchtower) and TD mentioned the quote in his following post. In this same book on page 47/48 it talks about Isaiah 52/53 and Romans 10. Where it says on page 47/48

The glorification of Jesus Christ in heaven after his extraordinary sufferings as a man on earth was good news, Gospel, Evangel. "Nevertheless," writes the apostle Paul with special reference to his own people, "they did not all obey the good news. For Isaiah says: 'Jehovah, who put faith in the thing heard [from] us? So faith follows the thing heard. In turn the thing heard is through the word about Christ" - Romans 10:16,17.

It goes on to say

A similar thing can be said today....The good news about the Messianic kingdom of Jehovah's "Servant" is better news today than it was nineteen hundred years ago, in apostolic times. In the face of the relatively small proportion of the world's population that has put faith in the "thing heard [from] us" or proclaimed by us, it can truthfully be said: "They did not all obey the good news."

What was preached was the establishment of God's Kingdom and that millions now living will never die I believe as his quote from the Babylon the great has fallen God's Kingdom rules book shows.

The speaker, J. F. Rutherford, then president of the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, quoted to the assembled thousands Isaiah 43:8-12 (AV) and then proceeded to say:
Thus we see that those of the temple class are clearly designated as the Lord's witnesses at this time, to bring a message of consolation to the people, that the kingdom of heaven is here, and that millions now living will never die.

'Watchtower June 1 1968 page 331On the Joyful March to Mankind’s Millennium
And no wonder. What good news they have to tell the people! They proclaim the good news that the millennial rule of Christ will begin with this generation and that it will mean ever so many blessings for the people :..’

Awake April 8 1988
Likewise today, most of the generation of 1914 has passed away. However, there are still millions on earth who were born in that year or prior to it. And although their numbers are dwindling, Jesus words will come true, “this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

My father had faith in the good news that he received when it was prophesied/ preached to him by the mouthpiece of Jehovah as far as I could tell and as a JW he would have understood faith as these Watchtower quotes explain

Watchtower September 1st 1969 page 532.

'Jehovah has made many promises of things yet to occur, One may hope that such things will come to pass, but such expression may only be a whimsical wish, not real faith. Faith is more than just an expectation. It is expectation that is assured to such a degree that it is able to support , uphold and guarantee that what is hoped for will become a reality. This is the meaning of hypostasis, a word common in ancient papyrus business documents in reference to guarantees placed on the transactions.
...Substantially the words [hy.po’sta.sis and e’leg.khos] mean that faith gives to things future, which as yet are only hoped for, all the reality of actual present existence,; and irresistibly convinces us of the reality of things unseen and brings us into their presence.” The Expositor’s Greek Testament, Vol.IV page 352.

Watchtower July 15th 1961 page 423
‘And since faith is also “the assured expectation of things hoped for,” it follows that we must also have knowledge of what are the things we may and should hope for. Again, God’s Word provides us with the needed knowledge. It assures us that paradisiac conditions will be restored to this earth, and that on a world-wide scale, and that this restoration work can be expected to begin within the present generation.’

and you say,

JW are convinced "wt" is God's org, HS is behind the preaching work, the meetings, the publications, the assemblies, ,

Which I have to say I find difficult to see as 'faith is assured expectation of the things hoped for" and the original generation teaching that my father accepted as good news was not what you are explaining or what was preached.

The JW who spoke to me about losing their faith in God talked of the new overlapping generation teaching and 1914. I suggested that they speak to the elders. Which they did and received the same response that I would have given. This didn't help much as they had not experienced the same or similar things themselves.

Paul says, 'So faith follows the thing heard. In turn the thing heard is through the word about Christ' but that was the JW problem (the one who spoke to me) the things he had heard.

241

Another generation....

by joey jojo in

it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

Ucantnome

Fisherman in reference to my last post in Matthew 12:32 it says,

'32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit [by attributing the miracles done by Me to Satan] will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.' (AMP www.biblegateway.com)

Which I understand is the unforgiveable sin, sinning against the holy spirit. Likewise I understood and maybe wrong that as the prophesying/preaching is done by the out pouring of the holy spirit one could find themselves going against the holy spirit by not attributing it to the holy spirit.

Not only this but to gain salvation for the other sheep Matthew 25:40 I understood was primarily fulfilled by joining and supporting the anointed in the prophesying/preaching.

The problem with this I see is that we must be convinced of what we are preaching in order to be a witness

Jehovah's Witnesses Proclaimers of God's Kingdom page 12 under the subheading What it means to be a Witness says

So a Witness relates facts from direct personal knowledge, or he proclaims views or truths of which he is convinced.

Be convinced.

The first booklet that my parents studied 'Look! I'm making all things new' (1959)

It is the generation of people now living who have the opportunity of learning the Bible and surviving the world's end. Jesus further prophesied concerning this day: "And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for the purpose of a witness to all the nations, and then the accomplished end will come." (Matthew 24:14)...
Do you hear this witness? Do you realize its urgency? Do you want to survive out of this old world of confusion and sorrow into God's new world of peace and joy? Then you must act, and act immediately!...
Your safety and the whole future of yourself and your family depend on now studying the Bible, associating with the New World society of Jehovah's witnesses, dedicating yourself to your Creator, Jehovah God, and witnessing for him...

(Underlining mine)

My father lived beyond the life expectancy for the no 1 country on the list by the World Health Organization(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy) and beyond what the bible says at Psalms 90:10

His safety and the whole future of himself in 1959 did not depend on his studying the bible and associating with the New World society of Jehovah's witnesses. He is now dead and so is his older brother who had nothing to do with the bible or Jehovah's witnesses.

However the miracle in Matthew 12 the man was cured. It seems quite different and so to be convinced would be easier than being convinced by the message that was shared with my father.

And as I stated in an earlier post,

'When I have had a conversation with the elder about the good news that he brings to my door and we discuss 1914. He tells me that it wouldn't matter if the date were changed. Which sounds to me that he is not convinced of what he is preaching.

When I discuss the good news with another Witness who lives thousands of miles away and is active in the field ministry. They tell me that they do not discuss 1914 as they believe it could be wrong.'

As these two Witnesses were preaching to me and neither seemed to want to commit to the teachings about 1914 it seems a bit of a conundrum.

241

Another generation....

by joey jojo in

it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

Ucantnome

wt has never professed to be inspired although they assert to be directed by God's HS exclusively;I agree.

In an article in the October 1st 1960 Watchtower, The Holy Bible-the book by Jehovah's Witnesses on page 586 under the subheading Written under inspiration, paragraph 10 quotes Matthew 12:28 and then Luke 11:20 where Jesus expelled demons and in Luke's account it says,' ..by means of God's finger...' In the following paragraph it mentions that

'Jesus thus spoke of God's spirit as God's "finger." In a direct way God's finger wrote the Ten Commandments on the two tablets of stone. But when God used men to write the various books of the Holy Bible God's symbolic finger, his spirit, shoved the stylus or pen of these men.'

In another Watchtower 1963 page 502 in the article Understanding what the Spirit is on page 503 it says,

..we have seen the word spirit has at least seven distinct meanings.

and in the previous paragraph to this it talks of Jesus miracles and that these were done by God's spirit and quotes Matthew 12:28. It then says'

'It was the same active force that gave Samson the strength to perform astonishing deeds,...'

Further on same paragraph,

'It enveloped 120 disciples of Jesus Christ at Pentecost and made it possible for them to heal the sick and raise the dead. God's spirit was poured out upon them in this fashion, he baptizing them in it (Acts 2:17)'

The way that I understand it is that this scripture in Acts 2:17 where it talks of the pouring out God's spirit and they 'will prophesy' which verse 16 shows to be quoting from the book of Joel is fulfilled in the remnant of anointed Christians from 1919.

'The dedicated believers had been anointed with holy spirit to prophesy and preach.'(WT.1966.page 690)

As they spoke of themselves as 'commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah'* and are prophesying due to the holy spirit like Jesus performed miracles and the bible was written. I don't really see a difference between. Inspired and directed.

*(The Nations Shall Know That I am Jehovah-How? WT 1971)

51

What were you never going to do in "This system" But did it?

by karter in

jw
friends

finish school.. finish my apprenticeship (why are you doing that brother karter you will never finish it in this system).. buy a house.. pay the house off.. karter..

Ucantnome

I reread a letter today that I received 40 years ago today. Never thought I would read it again 40 years later in this system.

14

Why education is a killer for doomsday cults.

by Half banana in

if you were to read the watchtower literature and you believed it to be the exclusive divinely inspired interpretation of the bible, i suggest that you would not be learning anything useful, instead you would simply be absorbing the indoctrination of the jw org..

what is the difference between indoctrination and education?.

take any passage from the watchtower this sentence for example which assumes significance in the end of six thousand years of human history in 1975: “how then does this fit in with god’s timetable?”.

Ucantnome

Half banana I'm quite grown up and so is the person I work with