Doesn't really matter what they say on oath. We know they have no moral scruples so they can say and do as they please.
Posts by erbie
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270WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?
by Dogpatch inwho are the false prophets today.
by barbara anderson.
in 1991, one of the watch tower societys senior writers, colin quackenbush, told me in the privacy of his office about letters which the society had received from prominent and credible elders, not apostates (thats exactly what he said), who were concerned about the increase in accusations saying that jehovahs witnesses were false prophets.
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Watchtower admits Bible Teaches Trinity & hellfire!
by williamhconley inthe wathtower admits that by reading the bible alone without their help, people will believe in the trinity, hellfire, visible return of christ, heavenly hope for all christians etc etc.. here's the quote:.
"from time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of jehovah's people those, who, like the original satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude... they say that it is sufficient to read the bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home.
but, strangely, through such 'bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago..." (watchtower, aug. 15, 1981, p. 29).. why would people revert back to christendoms doctrines unless the bible actually teaches them!.
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erbie
Well in truth, the bible does teach hell fire and the trinity. Not that I believe in it mind you but like it or not, that's what it teaches.
Even the NWT says that people will be tormented day and night forever and ever. I know the WT spin on this but if you let the bible speak for itself (something the WT don't like to do), it is obvious to anyone that you cannot be tormented unless you are concious.
Obviously this brings to the fore the question of the immortal soul. Do not the GB believe that they have an immortal soul and are going to heaven? I know they argue about the nature of what constitutes 'immortal' but it's not rocket science.
Also, the old testement makes it clear that there is but one true God and all other gods are false. Well then, in view of that, if we understand John 1:1 as the WT want us to-that Jesus is a lesser god in some way then, heaven forbid, that would make Jesus merely a false god.
The bible also refers to the Holy Spirit as He, Him.
Anyone who reads the bible (even the NWT), without the WT leaning on them will come to see what it really teaches.
Honestly, it's a rats nest, it really is. How do they get away with it?
I know I'm quite new to this site and am probably quite annoying but honestly, it makes my mind hurt to think how they have stolen so many peoples lives. And what makes them think they have the right to do that?
I'd like to see their downfall, I really would.
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Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - The Day My JW Faith Began to Die (finally)
by AllTimeJeff init was late june of 2001 that i was appointed as an elder at the amazingly seasoned age of 26. a true lifelong goal had been achieved.
i had to be appointed an elder before 30. already, peers were starting to be appointed.
i had to make it.
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erbie
Well done you! Well done indeed. A very honest and open story.
I myself never became an elder. I was a mini serpent but they were grooming me as elder material. Our po said I would make a great elder. At the time I viewed that as a comliment but now that I am wiser I see it as an insult.
I consider myself far too honest and open to ever have succeeded as an elder.
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How things have moved on
by erbie init is very interesting for me to read about people who are working their way through raymond franz's books.
i remember reading them about ten years ago and found them hugely helpful at what was a very difficult time for me.
i did not have free access to the internet back then so those books were the only glimpse of what went on, i mean what really went on, in the watchtower hq.
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erbie
Yes, weighing their investmant just about nails it. It's too late in the day to admit they are wrong.
This is true. I think the internet has been a real life saver for many sincere people, quite literally. During the mid nineties we were repeatedly told that the internet was the work of Satan and that no good would come of it.
What was said above about people going through the motions makes sense. I really see that with my inlaws. He's an elder but just doesn't seem too bothered about letting himself go and he never even mentions it to me. This is strange as I was never disfshpd. I have tried to bring the 'truth' up in conversation but he just doesn't seem interested yet we went to a wedding a while back and he wouldn't even step inside the church. It's crazy. They seem broken in some way or maybe it's their hope that is broken. With every huge earthquake the end still doesn't come.
Well, I reckon they're gonna have to stick at it because they said that I was a deluded fool when I started questioning it and to turn back now would mean I was right.
And that would never do!
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When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed? Why It Matters - What the Evidence Shows
by wannabefree inobviously 607 is a problem, watchower coming out full forces on this one in the latest public edition.. http://download.jw.org/files/media_magazines/wp_e_20111001.pdf.
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erbie
It really does not matter one jot when it was destroyed beacause the bible says that nobody knows when Christ would return. Therefore, the bible would not contain information that would help man work out when He would return.
The only reason the WT try to work it out is to create a sense of urgency among credulous individuals-don't worry, I was one of them so this is not meant to offend!
I trawled through the book 'Gentile Times Reconsidered' many years ago. Fact, there is no such thing as bible chronology as there are no dates contained therein. This is why secular chronology must rule supreme every time.
That's just the way it is. I don't make the rules.
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Your top 5 most irritating doctrines/practices?
by cedars init's clear that virtually everyone on here is infuriated by wt teachings/doctrines/practices, but i would really like to know what is of most concern to people who frequent this forum.. here is my top 5, number 1 being the most significant/infuriating:.
the disfellowshipping practice - expanded to include family members (but not parents) who are old enough to leave home.
wrecks families and creates abject fear once people find out the truth about the organization.the blood issue - another unmerciful teaching, but one that costs lives.unquestioned authority of governing body - a handful of men make life-altering decisions as representatives of a larger group of people who they never see or speak to, and yet they demand unquestioning obedience on pain of being disfellowshipped.failed prophecy - the fulfilment of huge swathes of bible prophecy, including revelation, has been attributed to the events of the early 20th century, and the actions of a small group of men.two-tier christianity - faithful and discreet slave are anointed who go to heaven to whom ransom provisions apply directly, whereas remainder, or "great crowd" stay on earth and form a sub-class, only access benefits of ransom through fds.i realise that many of these issues are inter-related, but that's roughly how i would put them.
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erbie
1, Twelve morons ruling from a huge office block. Scriptual?
2, Two 'classes' of Christians???
3, The blood issue. Idiots. Where do they get it from?
4, Birthdays.Wheredid they gat that from?
5, They discourage higher education. Naturally so that their followers don,t think they are clever!
Have they banned picnic's yet or is that to come??? If they do thats it I'm b####red!
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How things have moved on
by erbie init is very interesting for me to read about people who are working their way through raymond franz's books.
i remember reading them about ten years ago and found them hugely helpful at what was a very difficult time for me.
i did not have free access to the internet back then so those books were the only glimpse of what went on, i mean what really went on, in the watchtower hq.
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erbie
It is very interesting for me to read about people who are working their way through Raymond Franz's books. I remember reading them about ten years ago and found them hugely helpful at what was a very difficult time for me. I did not have free access to the internet back then so those books were the only glimpse of what went on, I mean what really went on, in the Watchtower HQ.
I do still have contact with some witnesses as my inlaws are still JW's. However, they have closed ranks on us as they do not like to give anything away. I sense that they perhaps feel a measure of shame or embarrassment at what they do.
In short, it fascinates me how some people on this site appear to be still active as witnesses yet quite angry, with good reason, at the Wathtower Org. It seems that some of you still go on the ministry and go through all the motions of being a witness yet not believing it in the slightest. I left a few years ago but as with many of you, there was a transitional period of struggling on regardless even after I had decided that I didn't believe it. Anyway, this site makes it much easier for everyone involved which is really good news. I was completely on my own back then and had anger and hatred vented towards me in a way that I could not believe.
So, what I really wonder is: What is it like on the inside these days? Do you think that there is a general feeling of dissillusion? Certainly the witnesses I come in to contact with seem less concientous or fanatical. More laid back perhaps.
Please forgive my frankness, but it does intrigue me even now. And when I reflect on those dark days I spent in the Watchtower as I affectionally call it, I think, what WAS that all about. It shook my world in a way that took me years to recover.
So the question is: With all the wars, trouble, earthquakes and so on, why are insecure people not flocking to the watchtower? Could it be that they have cried wolf so many times that people (we) have learned from our past mistakes and are happy to ignore their fruitless ramblings.
Thank you for taking the time to read this and I would love to read of other experiences.
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My Old KH in the News - "Vicar fury at new home for Jehovahs"
by cofty inmy old kingdom hall at berwick-on-tweed has finally been sold to an art dealer after being on the market for a couple of years.. this week they were granted planning permission for a quick build on a site in a village just outside the town.
"rev matthew knox, vicar of tweedmouth and priest in charge of st peters church in scremerston, argued the plan should be turned down because it is not a place of christian worship as stated in the application.".
the story is the front page headline today in my local paper, the berwick advertiser.. here is a couple of gems from the article... "it is not part of churches together in berwick, it has its own translation of the bible and to my knowledge discourages independent thinking with the real threat of members being shunned by all other members if they dispute their governing bodys official doctrine.".
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erbie
Wow! Your old Kingdom Hall looks like it came complete with real authentic Watchtowers. Did you find this helpful in keeping on the watch?
I've been to quite a few different halls here in the UK but nothing tops this one. There is one just up the road from me at Stroud in Glos which still has an asbestos roof on it or at least it did the last time I saw it a few months ago. It doesn't have Watchtowers though. Well, only the ones at the magazine counter but they don't count.
Keep on the watch faithful brothers and sisters!
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Credit Card Donation terminals are currently being installed in JWs Assembly Halls...
by AndersonsInfo ini received the following email from a former jw that i thought to share.
note: i retyped the boe letter that was sent from the christian congregation of jehovahs witnesses to all congregations in the us.
the letter is authentic.
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erbie
Well, this shouldn't surprise us really. After all the Watchtower is just a money making racket right. They live the life of Riley while they send the troops out to do the foot work. Its history repeating itself. They're no better than the pope or anyone else. What goes around comes around.
Its just aswell Christ decided not to show up in 1914 cos he would have a lot of money tables to smash up. Hopefully he would have knocked some sense into these morons who collect money at every opportunity.
Honestly, they're obsessed! Why don't they go out and get a job so as to earn an honest wage like most other people.
Morons.
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My story .....no friends after leaving the Cult and lost wife?
by Witness 007 ini realized today that i have no friends at all...it's me and my wife and two dogs and three goldfish, thats it's....i'm not too bothered by it but my wife wants to go back just for the friends.....i have de-programed her out of the "matrix" and she now thinks for herself, but she still feels like she needs a spritual side and friends.
i have people at work but we don't hang out.
i've become a a loner.
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erbie
As with all things it does take time but you will come to see that there are some really nice, interesting people in the non Witness comunity. Besides, if people no longer want your friendship just because you do not share their vision then they were probably not very good friends in the first place.
Its not easy I know as I have been through it myself but in time I learned to see people as individuals and not as something that requires a label in order to meet with my approval.
We live in a great world with wonderful diversity and its yours. Embrace it.