The beard issue is the one thing that has bothered me the most as a Jehovah's Witness. They have absolutely no scriptural grounds to enforce this. As Punk has shown from the Bible, it is opposite! Leviticus 19:27, ‘YOU must not cut YOUR sidelocks short around, and you must not destroy the extremity of your beard." I think it had more to do with controlling the young men at Bethel and keeping them younger looking. Possibly more feminine looking as well. I would think the first men who practiced this must have been pagan trying to look like females. I always had hoped they would discover that ties were pagan too. Who puts a choke rope around their neck and walks around with it? No doubt it was a kinky pagan practice at first.
Greybeard
JoinedPosts by Greybeard
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No Tattoos for JWs? Then why no beards?
by punkofnice inas elders we were told that tattoos were a no no!
because leviticus 19:28 says not......and jar hoover doesn't change according to micah.. the verse prior says not to cut your beard.. we have here typical wbt$ spin.
take one scripture literally and 'appeal to authority' ie.
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Should not those who protect "Mentally Diseased" be outraged?
by Greybeard inso lets say we are "mentally diseased"... where is our protection from this hate speech and mental abuse?
there are all kinds of mental institutions around the world.
edit- maybe we should all go check ourselves in saying, "jehovah, the great physician has called us "mentally diseased apostates!
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Greybeard
@ WTWizard
You are absolutely right! If it wasn't for the "laws of the land" they would be stoning us to death and why? For not believing they are equal to Jesus Christ? For not believing them after all of their false prophecies? The truth of the matter is if we were under the Mosaic Law this scripture would apply to them, "However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: "How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?" when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it." Deuteronomy 18:20-22
Hello...
Anyone at Bethel reading this? Wake up!
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Should not those who protect "Mentally Diseased" be outraged?
by Greybeard inso lets say we are "mentally diseased"... where is our protection from this hate speech and mental abuse?
there are all kinds of mental institutions around the world.
edit- maybe we should all go check ourselves in saying, "jehovah, the great physician has called us "mentally diseased apostates!
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Greybeard
@ Teary Oberson,
Peace to you! I am not hear to argue with you or anyone on this forum. I am not trying to "perpetuate lies" as you have so eloquently implied. I have not done an extensive review on 1 Timothy 6:4 and I thank you for your summery on this scripture. When I said, "only the New World Translation uses the words "Mentally Diseased" in their translation at 1 Timothy 6:4" I did add a link to that statement that you failed to quote while quoting me. Here is that link: http://bible.cc/1_timothy/6-4.htm IF you will click on that link you will find 17 Bibles that translate 1 Timothy 6:4... and so far, I have not found any that use the words "mentally diseased". Whatever the case, even IF "mentally diseased" is the best translation of Paul words, I for one feel that Jesus Christ's words at Matthew 5:22 outweigh them and must be considered when we judge or label others! Do you not agree???
With all due respect Teary Oberson, You sound like a JW apologist to me. The issue is not what does 1 Timothy 6:4 mean, The issue is judging people and labeling them as fit for destruction. I believe I made that VERY clear. Why are you trying to change the issue? Are you ok with judging others as fit for destruction? I would hope not but can't help but wonder as you seam to be defending the Watchtower. I hope I am wrong!
It is very clear that calling someone an "apostate" is the same as calling them a "despicable fool" or "rebel" worthy of everlasting destruction as stated in the Watchtower.
I posted this and you had nothing to say about it:
The Watchtower of 2006, 2/15 “Questions From Readers” article asks this: What three dangers was Jesus warning against at Matthew 5:22 ?
"What, then, did the expression “despicable fool” signify? The word used here sounded similar to a Hebrew term that means “rebellious,” or “mutinous.” It designates a person as morally worthless, an apostate and a rebel against God. So the person addressing his fellow as a “despicable fool” is as much as saying that his brother should receive a punishment fit for a rebel against God, everlasting destruction. From God’s standpoint, the one uttering such a condemnation against another could merit that severe sentence—everlasting destruction—himself.— Deuteronomy 19:17-19 ."
Clearly calling someone an "apostate" violates Christ command at Matthew 5:22. That IS the issue. Judging or labeling your brother as fit for destruction in wrong! What happened to Moses after he called the Israelites "rebels" meaning "apostates"? This is a hate crime and I hope the superior authorities that "stand placed in their relative positions by God" will put them in their place along with any other religion that practices this! To my knowledge, JW's are the worst! It wasn't until 1962 that the JW's understood who the "superior authorities" were. Go figure... When do you think they will understand Matthew 5:22 ? When will you understand what the real issue is here on this thread?
Your brother in Christ,
Greybeard
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Should not those who protect "Mentally Diseased" be outraged?
by Greybeard inso lets say we are "mentally diseased"... where is our protection from this hate speech and mental abuse?
there are all kinds of mental institutions around the world.
edit- maybe we should all go check ourselves in saying, "jehovah, the great physician has called us "mentally diseased apostates!
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Greybeard
I was just wondering,
Could their have been some kind of subliminal message attempt by studying this strong article on the tenth anniversary of 911?
I think so...
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Should not those who protect "Mentally Diseased" be outraged?
by Greybeard inso lets say we are "mentally diseased"... where is our protection from this hate speech and mental abuse?
there are all kinds of mental institutions around the world.
edit- maybe we should all go check ourselves in saying, "jehovah, the great physician has called us "mentally diseased apostates!
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Greybeard
Along with what Mad Sweeny said,
ONLY the New World Translation uses the words "Mentally Diseased" in their translation at 1 Timothy 6:4.
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Should not those who protect "Mentally Diseased" be outraged?
by Greybeard inso lets say we are "mentally diseased"... where is our protection from this hate speech and mental abuse?
there are all kinds of mental institutions around the world.
edit- maybe we should all go check ourselves in saying, "jehovah, the great physician has called us "mentally diseased apostates!
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Greybeard
@ Gayle,
Right on!
I was thinking... How cool it would be if a group of X-JW's in New York got together and all sought help from a mental institution. Maybe even take out an add in the paper asking for financial help for their "Mental Disease" . Mental institutions cost money right? They could say "Jehovah, the Great Physician has rejected us and we need help!" Maybe they could get someone like Jerry Lewis to do a telethon! I'm just joking of course
@ AGuest,
I think we ALL are guilty of name calling at one time or another. I know I have in times past. These days I honestly try to live and let live without condemning anyone. I think it is one thing to call someone a name and another to label them as "fit for everlasting destruction" . I would venture to say that not many on this thread stoop to that level. If so, I haven't seen it yet. The JW's do do this. When they call someone an "apostate" they are actually judging them as "fit for everlasting destruction." They even admit this is a 2006 Watchtower article where they said this:
The Watchtower of 2006, 2/15 “Questions From Readers” article asks this: What three dangers was Jesus warning against at Matthew 5:22 ?
"What, then, did the expression “despicable fool” signify? The word used here sounded similar to a Hebrew term that means “rebellious,” or “mutinous.” It designates a person as morally worthless, an apostate and a rebel against God. So the person addressing his fellow as a “despicable fool” is as much as saying that his brother should receive a punishment fit for a rebel against God, everlasting destruction. From God’s standpoint, the one uttering such a condemnation against another could merit that severe sentence—everlasting destruction—himself.— Deuteronomy 19:17-19 ."
Do you see the point here? The Watchtower here admits to call someone "apostate" is the same as calling them a "despicable fool" or rebel fit fir everlasting destruction. Jesus condemned such speech. It truly is HATE speech.
Even though some use terms such as "crazy/delusional/schizophrenic" as you mentioned, it does not carry the same meaning the Watchtower has employed does it? That they are fit for destruction? Or am I missing something?
Your brother in Christ,
Greybeard
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25
Should not those who protect "Mentally Diseased" be outraged?
by Greybeard inso lets say we are "mentally diseased"... where is our protection from this hate speech and mental abuse?
there are all kinds of mental institutions around the world.
edit- maybe we should all go check ourselves in saying, "jehovah, the great physician has called us "mentally diseased apostates!
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Greybeard
I would LOVE to see a class action law suit engage in response to this article. I know many say it is impossible to win. SO WHAT? That might not be the case this time. Am I dreaming here?
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Should not those who protect "Mentally Diseased" be outraged?
by Greybeard inso lets say we are "mentally diseased"... where is our protection from this hate speech and mental abuse?
there are all kinds of mental institutions around the world.
edit- maybe we should all go check ourselves in saying, "jehovah, the great physician has called us "mentally diseased apostates!
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Greybeard
So lets say we are "mentally diseased"... Where is our protection from this hate speech and mental abuse? There are all kinds of mental institutions around the world. Edit- Maybe we should all go check ourselves in saying, "Jehovah, the Great Physician has called us "mentally diseased apostates!" - I wonder how they would feel if they read these words out of the Watchtower study article for 9/11/2011:
"Suppose that a doctor told you to avoid contact with someone who is infected with a contagious, deadly disease," the article reads. "You would know what the doctor means, and you would strictly heed his warning. Well, apostates are 'mentally diseased', and they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings... Jehovah, the Great Physician, tells us to avoid contact with them. We know what he means, but are we determined to heed his warning in all respects? What is involved in avoiding false teachers? We do not receive them into our homes or greet them. We also refuse to read their literature, watch television programmes that feature them, examine their websites, or add our comments to their blogs."
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Now that the Independent article is out...
by diana netherton ini think it may be a good time to start writing to other publications with some of the outlandish.
jw doctrines...higher education is one thing that comes to mind.
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Greybeard
sen·sa·tion·al·ism
1. subject matter, language, or style producing or designed to produce startling or thrilling impressions or to excite and please vulgar taste. @ cantleave / With all due respect... Maybe I'm missing something... Does pointing out the missed opportunity of the Watchtower to call "mothers and fathers who stroke the genitals of their fretful babies" child abuse, sound like "sensationalism" to you? Or is it this that does: " Watchtower Society, I strongly suggest that if you have friends that practice such criminal behavior, you get some new ones and turn the old ones into the authorities. Oh yeah, I forgot that you have a history of not turning self confessed child molesters into the police, citing clergy privilege. That you’ve paid out millions of dollars in settlements to child abuse victims for the way you’ve handled these kinds of cases. Then as a condition of settlement, you had the victims agree to non-disclosure so they wouldn’t spread the word among the flock."
To me this is strongly pointing out the facts. How do you know this wasn't written by a person who wasn't molested himself? I believe this statement reflecting the Watchtowers view is a HUGE issue that has gone unnoticed for years. It could very well be the reason many "elders" engaged in this practice. To my knowledge the Catholic Church has never put such foolish statements into writing and THANK GOD, they have a much larger audience. Could you imagine what the world would be like now if the Pope would have said this 50 years ago? There is nothing like the power of suggestion. You may be right. Maybe this article could be written in a better way to present to the public. Could you do that or maybe someone else take a shot at it? I just know if I were still in the twoof I would respond to something like this more than anything else. But that's just me. I think we should hit them with all we got and do it now! Your brother, Greybeard -
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Now that the Independent article is out...
by diana netherton ini think it may be a good time to start writing to other publications with some of the outlandish.
jw doctrines...higher education is one thing that comes to mind.
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Greybeard
Here is a letter I would like to put in the news! If you can, e-mail this to everyone you know. I think this is a VERY powerful letter:
When first made aware of this quote I didn’t really believe it. I didn’t want to believe it! If it wasn’t brought to my attention by a good friend, I wouldn’t even have bothered to look it up in the Watchtower Library. Because I know this person to be a serious Christian I did look it up, still not believing this quote could ever have been printed in a serious religious journal. Guess what, the quote below was copied right out of the Watchtower Library. Do you think this is the kind of thing that an organization directed by Jehovah’s Holy Spirit would print? Hardly! While they are not condoning in print the practice they mentioned, after such a statement, most Christians likely would feel compelled to launch into a condemnation of such a practice! To call it what it is, CHILD ABUSE! No, not the spirit led organization of God. They just take the tone that it’s probably not a good idea because it could cause your children to be masturbators in the future. This is a sick example of the Watchtower going places that they NEVER should go in the pages of their magazine. Is this organization spirit directed, you decide. I have…..
*** w73 9/15 p. 568 Breaking Free of Self-Abuse—Why? How? ***
“Did you know, for example, that mothers and fathers who stroke the genitals of their fretful babies to keep them quiet are unwittingly encouraging them to become masturbators later on? Boys and girls may start to play with their private parts during puberty and, not receiving any counsel against this, the first thing they know they are “hooked” on the habit.”
I have a question for the Watchtower organization. I apologize to all others before I even ask it. Who masturbates their babies to keep them quiet? I mean really, what kind of sick, twisted individual would even conceive of such a thing, print it in the pages of your journal in such a matter of fact tone and then let the opportunity go by without condemning the practice? Watchtower Society, I strongly suggest that if you have friends that practice such criminal behavior, you get some new ones and turn the old ones into the authorities. Oh yeah, I forgot that you have a history of not turning self confessed child molesters into the police, citing clergy privilege. That you’ve paid out millions of dollars in settlements to child abuse victims for the way you’ve handled these kinds of cases. Then as a condition of settlement, you had the victims agree to non-disclosure so they wouldn’t spread the word among the flock.
Brother’s and sister’s, wake up!