I think you nailed it once again Outlaw.
Blondie...thanks for the links.
They pretty much prove my point. JWs don't pray or make intercessions for anyone unless it's for the good of the congregation only.
Surely NOT hat Paul had in mind!
Posts by NikL
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41 Timothy 2 says to "Pray for Kings and those in high postitons". Why don't JWs do that?
by NikL insurely the jaydubs have read these scriptures.. it seems pretty plain even in their own bible.. 2 first of all, then, i urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made concerning all sorts of men, 2 concerning kings and all those who are in high positions, so that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with complete godly devotion and seriousness.+ 3 this is fine and acceptable in the sight of our savior, god,+ 4 whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved+ and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.
5 for there is one god,+ and one mediator+ between god and men,+ a man, christ jesus,+ 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all —this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time.. .
i looked up the word "intercession" and it is defined as.... intercession or intercessory prayer is the act of praying to a deity on behalf of others.. i looked for reference to this passage in the jw library and the article i found put the emphasis on "living a quiet calm life with seriousness and godly devotion".
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NikL
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1 Timothy 2 says to "Pray for Kings and those in high postitons". Why don't JWs do that?
by NikL insurely the jaydubs have read these scriptures.. it seems pretty plain even in their own bible.. 2 first of all, then, i urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made concerning all sorts of men, 2 concerning kings and all those who are in high positions, so that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with complete godly devotion and seriousness.+ 3 this is fine and acceptable in the sight of our savior, god,+ 4 whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved+ and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.
5 for there is one god,+ and one mediator+ between god and men,+ a man, christ jesus,+ 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all —this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time.. .
i looked up the word "intercession" and it is defined as.... intercession or intercessory prayer is the act of praying to a deity on behalf of others.. i looked for reference to this passage in the jw library and the article i found put the emphasis on "living a quiet calm life with seriousness and godly devotion".
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NikL
Surely the JayDubs have read these scriptures.
It seems pretty plain even in their own bible.
2 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made concerning all sorts of men, 2 concerning kings and all those who are in high positions, so that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with complete godly devotion and seriousness.+ 3 This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God,+ 4 whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved+ and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 5 For there is one God,+ and one mediator+ between God and men,+ a man, Christ Jesus,+ 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all —this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time.
I looked up the word "intercession" and it is defined as...
Intercession or intercessory prayer is the act of praying to a deity on behalf of others.
I looked for reference to this passage in the JW library and the article I found put the emphasis on "living a quiet calm life with seriousness and godly devotion". As if that part of the scripture wasn't there.
I can't recall EVER hearing a prayer asking for Jehovah blessing and guidance to be upon the president, prime minister king or anything else. Well, maybe the slave.
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Another recorded Judicial Meeting...
by NikL ini've listened to quite a few but for some reason, this one has me really angry.. my heart goes out to the young family dealing with this bull shite.. give a listen.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifkpiqigq9c.
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NikL
it's no wonder that many people say this organization is inspired and influenced from Satan the Devil because its attempt to divide people from Jesus Christ and his teachings
Amen to that Finkelstein!
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Jehovah’s Witnesses former members tell court they were subjected to "total control" From TASS
by NikL infrom tass the official russian news agency.. apologies if this has appeared on this board already.... http://tass.com/world/941007.
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NikL
From TASS the official Russian News Agency.
Apologies if this has appeared on this board already...
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Church gets own police force - are the Dubs next?
by SadElder injust read this article in the washington times.
other sites have similar stories.. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/12/briarwood-presbyterian-alabama-megachurch-gets-sta/.
can you imagine the dubs with a sworn police force with arrest powers?.
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NikL
On a side note, they've started locking the doors at our hall after the meeting starts.
All the more reason to be late I guess :-) (oops locked out!)
No kh I have ever been into had fire push-release doors.
In California there would be a big fine for not having push release doors.
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Another recorded Judicial Meeting...
by NikL ini've listened to quite a few but for some reason, this one has me really angry.. my heart goes out to the young family dealing with this bull shite.. give a listen.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifkpiqigq9c.
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NikL
Stupid elder quoted 1 Timothy 4:1...
However, the inspired word* clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements*+ and teachings of demons,
Applying it to these people just asking questions about their religion.
He should have continued reading ...
2 by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies,+ whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron. 3 They forbid marriage+ and command people to abstain from foods+ that God created to be partaken of+ with thanksgiving by those who have faith+ and accurately know the truth. 4 For every creation of God is fine,+ and nothing is to be rejected+ if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 for it is sanctified through God’s word and prayer over it.
Damn this pisses me off!
They were so nice and respectful too.
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Another recorded Judicial Meeting...
by NikL ini've listened to quite a few but for some reason, this one has me really angry.. my heart goes out to the young family dealing with this bull shite.. give a listen.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifkpiqigq9c.
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NikL
I've listened to quite a few but for some reason, this one has me really angry.
My heart goes out to the young family dealing with this Bull Shite.
Give a listen...
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No prayer at public meetings?
by NikL ini was doing some research on another topic and i came across this from the march 1950 watchtower.... absence of prayer at public meetings!november 17, 1949dear brother:answering your query of the 9th instant regarding the absence of prayer in opening and closing our public meetings:it is certain that the public does not come to our public lectures in our kingdom hall or elsewhere to hear us pray, but do come to hear the advertised subject spoken upon by the speaker announced as competent to handle it.
our exemplar jesus held many public lectures, but there is no record that he opened or closed any of them with prayer.
there is no bible record that he opened up the sermon on the mount with prayer, or those open-air lectures after which he fed the multitude, first the 5,000 and then the 4,000. but there is a record that when he thus fed the multitudes he did offer prayer of thanksgiving to god before breaking the bread and fish and distributing the pieces to the hungry crowds.
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NikL
Even the depth of writing has changed.
The above quoted articles are clearly intended for intelligent adults who have more than basic reading comprehension.
Today's stuff? Written for 8-year-olds - and then there are the "simplified" editions!
I keep hearing about the dumbing down of America.
That is for people who are outside the Org. who as a whole are encouraged to get educated.
Imagine what it's like within the Org where education is looked down upon.
The people in the writing department are products of this environment and the resulting simplistic articles are the result.
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No prayer at public meetings?
by NikL ini was doing some research on another topic and i came across this from the march 1950 watchtower.... absence of prayer at public meetings!november 17, 1949dear brother:answering your query of the 9th instant regarding the absence of prayer in opening and closing our public meetings:it is certain that the public does not come to our public lectures in our kingdom hall or elsewhere to hear us pray, but do come to hear the advertised subject spoken upon by the speaker announced as competent to handle it.
our exemplar jesus held many public lectures, but there is no record that he opened or closed any of them with prayer.
there is no bible record that he opened up the sermon on the mount with prayer, or those open-air lectures after which he fed the multitude, first the 5,000 and then the 4,000. but there is a record that when he thus fed the multitudes he did offer prayer of thanksgiving to god before breaking the bread and fish and distributing the pieces to the hungry crowds.
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NikL
I was doing some research on another topic and I came across this from the March 1950 Watchtower...
ABSENCE OF PRAYER AT PUBLIC MEETINGS!
November 17, 1949
Dear Brother:
Answering your query of the 9th instant regarding the absence of prayer in opening and closing our public meetings:
It is certain that the public does not come to our public lectures in our Kingdom Hall or elsewhere to hear us pray, but do come to hear the advertised subject spoken upon by the speaker announced as competent to handle it. Our Exemplar Jesus held many public lectures, but there is no record that he opened or closed any of them with prayer. There is no Bible record that he opened up the sermon on the mount with prayer, or those open-air lectures after which he fed the multitude, first the 5,000 and then the 4,000. But there is a record that when he thus fed the multitudes he did offer prayer of thanksgiving to God before breaking the bread and fish and distributing the pieces to the hungry crowds. And these lectures, mind you, were public gatherings of practically all Jews who already believed in Jehovah God. But in our case today we advertise our public lectures as open to all peoples, whether nominally Catholic, Protestant, Jew, skeptic, atheist, or of the many pagan religions. Surely those of the public who are not of the Christian faith do not turn out to our meetings in order to join with us in prayer to our God, but solely to hear the speech which is the drawing feature. So we give them that and do not think to impose upon them by attaching something else to the lecture which might offend or stumble them before they hear the speech they came for. The apostle Paul, at 1 Corinthians, chapter 14, says Christians should offer prayer at their own meetings in a language to be understood in order that the hearers might be able to say Amen! at its close. But we should not expect any non-Christian public to join in any prayer if offered at a public meeting and then say Amen! with us at the close. Our brethren are offering public lectures in many pagan lands, and if it would be imposing upon the pagan public to offer our prayers before we let them hear our public message, then the same rule ought to apply even in Christendom. Because the message is for the public to tune in on, prayer is likewise not offered over the Society’s radio station WBBR. But this does not mean prayer is never offered in behalf of all such public meetings. It is, privately, by those promoting and supporting the public lecture campaign. That suffices.
Yours faithfully in serving The Theocracy,
WATCH TOWER BIBLE & TRACT SOCIETYThe next letter in the same issue...
ATTENDING FUNERALS AND MARRIAGES—WHERE?
November 17, 1949
Dear Brother:
Your card of the 10th instant refers to our letter in the November 15 issue of The Watchtower on “Weddings and Funerals” and asks whether you are to understand thereby that we “advocate the friends’ attending weddings and funerals when officiated by religious clergy or in their buildings”.
Why, certainly we do not “advocate” it, and the letter in the above Watchtower that answered the inquirer was not commenting on attending weddings and funerals at religious buildings where the clergy hold forth. Our letter mentioned sending out our own representatives to serve at such functions.
However, whether a brother or sister is free to attend such a function under clergy management and in their establishment is another question. Certainly a marriage performed by a religious clergyman is just as valid with the law of the land as one performed by any of our brothers who applies for and gets a license. And when any of our brethren do not have any of our own brothers to perform but go to a municipal building and have the ceremony performed by a justice of the peace or some other duly constituted public official, they do not ask first whether that official is a Catholic, Protestant, Jew, or other kind of religionist. The main thing is, Does he represent the law of the land and is he empowered to give legal authority and recognition to the marriage? All other matters are incidental and unimportant and without bearing.
A father or mother, who for reasons beyond their control feel obliged to go to a religious building to see their child married or buried, goes there to see the marriage or the funeral and for no religious reason, if they are in the truth. It is the same as in the apostle’s day in the case of a man who went into an idol’s temple for something to eat. He goes in there to get a meal, but not to worship. (1 Corinthians 8:7-10, American Standard Version) Some other brother’s conscience would not be strong enough to permit him to do this, and his weak conscience would take offense if he saw his Christian brother in such a place for just a meal. So while we do not “advocate” it, we are not within our province to criticize or condemn, but will let God judge our brother who according to his conscience may feel obligated to attend functions under clergy officiation.
Faithfully yours in Theocratic service,
WATCH TOWER BIBLE & TRACT SOCIETYI just thought it was interesting to see how MUCH things have changed.
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Was it just me or was something different about the memorial last night?
by kpop inthis was the first memorial that i declined to do any work for the memorial.
i was assigned as a parking attendant after getting downgraded from doing the sound and had no intention of doing either task but i had to attend for my family and continuation of my fade.
i sat there last night listening to the talk and couldn't help but shake my head as my brain attempted to process the bs.
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NikL
Yeah kind of different here as well.
We have a two hall setup and the speaker was in the other hall while we watched it on TV. He didn't give the attendants a chance to pass the bread around in our hall before he started on the wine bit so the attendants were tripping over themselves to keep up. We must have had a bigger crowd than upstairs.
I also noticed nobody looked up bible scriptures. Hell, we didn't even bring them. Figured I would use our phones if we needed to.
Best crowd in a long time though. We were packed in like sardines and it was really warm. I was drowsing hardcore by the end of the talk. really boring and statements made that just had no scriptural backing.
All in all I am glad it's over for another year and I pray to God that he'll forgive me for not having the courage to stand up and refuse to go with my JW wife.