Posts by ShadesofGrey

238

Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled in

perhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.

1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).

sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.

ShadesofGrey

I can't seem to edit.

Flamegrilled, could you give me some examples of how JWs show agape love? That would help me to think of examples that would be acceptable to you.

I have been to 4 churches less than a dozen times total, so my experience is limited.

A local church has paid for my neighbor's gas bill in October and her phone bill in December. They also deliver boxes of food to her from the food pantry and there have been people from that church (who are not related to her) who have come to help her clean her house. We had a local church that we visited drop by on Christmas day with a basket of food for us. All that was needed for a Christmas dinner. It was so nice of them, but we didn't need it, so I went directly to said neighbor's house with it. At another church there are volunteers in the church nursery that watched my son for me so that I could see the Christmas pageant. She was disappointed that she had to miss it in order to volunteer that day, but it was a sacrafice that she had decided to make. I have a friend in another state that volunteers in a "closet on wheels" mission to provide clothing for others.

I know of three Christians that go from door to door in their ministry and two others that volunteer at state fairs in order to preach the gospel, and several others that have ministries on youtube and in blogs. I know a missionary who volunteered to fly out here the week that I DA'd if I wanted him to be here to support the family, and he has already volunteered to fly here at some later date should we need him.

I have Nigerian friends on facebook because they saw my posts in a Bible page and were moved to friend me as a result. I also have Eastern Orthodox, Catholic, Baptist and Non-denominational friends on Facebook for similar reasons. They saw me post on another forum and wanted to offer their support, even after I said that I have no interest in joining their denominations/churches. They check up on me often, even calling and offering help with my parenting questions.

238

Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled in

perhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.

1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).

sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.

ShadesofGrey

1) By this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (John 13:35). Sure I know that not all JWs do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine JWs will NOT kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.

John the Baptist was approached by some soldiers who wanted to repent and get baptized. John was not a popular guy. He was preparing the way for the Lord. He denounced the insincere ones who came to get baptized and he ended up beheaded for sticking up for high moral values. What did John the Baptist tell the soldiers who came to him to do in order to repent and be baptized?

238

Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled in

perhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.

1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).

sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.

ShadesofGrey

When did The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society start preaching that Christ's presence began in 1914? Yknot, can I answer that this was printed as doctrine much, much, later?

Flamegrilled, was "Christ presence began in 1914" believed and preached in 1925? 1935? 1940?

238

Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled in

perhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.

1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).

sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.

ShadesofGrey

This is a very good question flamgrilled and sure to be an insightful thread. I really would like to read this through and address some things, but I can't right now. So, I am marking for later.

Nice to see you Sab and N. Drew,

My love to all,

Carmen

10

Letters to a friend about the memorial:

by ShadesofGrey in

[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> </w:worddocument> </xml><!

[endif][if !mso]> <object classid="clsid:38481807-ca0e-42d2-bf39-b33af135cc4d" id=ieooui> </object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <!

[endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"times new roman";} </style> <![endif].

ShadesofGrey

Hello Carmen,

The little flock refers to the Jews and the other sheep are us Gentiles :)

Yes, that is the conclusion I have received as well.

I have also noticed that those who are reigning as Kings and Priests in Revelation 5 are the Great Crowd!

Nice to see you,

Carmen

7

Do you find that understanding and explaining SPIRITUALITY "is like trying to squeeze mercury with a nutcracker"?

by Fernando in

this was the observation made by professor kieran flanagan who edited the compendium: "a sociology of spirituality".. .

at least the good news is that science is making a start in coming to grips with human spirituality.. one assumes our biggest advances will come from sbnr (spiritual but not religious) scientists since they are less constrained by religious baggage, dogma, sectarianism, divided loyalties, conflict-of-interest and other impediments..

ShadesofGrey

I find it is easy to understand spirituality, but impossible to put into words.

48

looky what they make the latest watchtower (public) say

by therevealer in

through the new covenant, jehovah makes blessings.

available to many by means of a few.

the covenant are few, a mere 144,000. through.

ShadesofGrey

We don't care what denominations teach Designs. We follow one Leader and Teacher and He has done nothing but teach us truth and improve our lives.

Nice to see you Jonathan. I sometimes feel as if the only one who is on fire for the Lord. I always enjoy your posts.

Correct. If only the reader, anyone, will realize there is no exclusive group of 144,000 JWs who alone go to heaven. The group doesn't exist as they envision it. Understand that and the remainder of their related crazy ideas go away.

Yes, I agree that this is a key point and would work for some people. We are all different. My husband and I hads different truths that woke us up. The bottom line is found in 2 Corinthians 3:15-16.

Love,

Carmen

10

Letters to a friend about the memorial:

by ShadesofGrey in

[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> </w:worddocument> </xml><!

[endif][if !mso]> <object classid="clsid:38481807-ca0e-42d2-bf39-b33af135cc4d" id=ieooui> </object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <!

[endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"times new roman";} </style> <![endif].

ShadesofGrey

Thanks for the link Moshe. I love it.

SA, I will read more of your thoughts later. My son is wrestling the computer from me. But, suffice it to say for now that those letters were written to a JW with an assumed JW understanding of partaking.

My love to you all,

Carmen

15

Putting together a brochure that debunks the "Memorial"...

by Alfred in

with "memorial season" just around the corner, i am planning to put together a small brochure (or maybe just a plain-looking document on letter-sized paper) that exposes the embarassing fact that jws still hold their "memorial" every year even though, by their own teachings, they should have had their last one in 1914. i plan to give it to the next elder who stops by to "count his time" during memorial season.

but hopefully, this will happen before they start canvassing my neighborhood since i plan to distribute it to my neighbors as well.. i've just started this morning with the following "quick draft" (but i would appreciate your comments and insight... thanks):.

jehovah's witnesses, why are you still inviting people to "the memorial"?.

ShadesofGrey

Yes Mad Sweeney, my point is that per WT teachings, the Great Crowd has no mediator, no Heavenly Father, and no hope.

Alfred, I will pray that your campaign is a success.

I am taking another look at it. I really like the question as a header. I didn't notice it before.

Here is how I used that same scripture read at the memorial:

1 Corinthians 11:25, 26 23 For I received from the Lord that which I also handed on to YOU , that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was going to be handed over took a loaf 24 and, after giving thanks, he broke it and said: “This means my body which is in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” 25 He did likewise respecting the cup also, after he had the evening meal, saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood. Keep doing this, as often as YOU drink it, in remembrance of me.”

“As often as you drink it.” But we are told not to drink it.

“Drink out of it, all of YOU ; 28 for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins.” Matthew 26:28 So if we don’t drink it, we aren’t part of the New Covenant?

“The great crowd of other sheep that is forming today is not in that new covenant.”—Watchtower 4/1/1979 Then we don’t have forgiveness of sins?!!!

1 Corinthians 11:26 “For as often as YOU eat this loaf and drink this cup, YOU keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives.” Didn’t he arrive in 1914?

Jehovah's Witnesses, why are you STILL inviting people to "The Memorial"?

For I received from the Lord that which I also handed on to YOU, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was going to be handed over took a loaf and, after giving thanks, he broke it and said: “This means my body which is in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” He did likewise respecting the cup also, after he had the evening meal, saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood. Keep doing this, as often as YOU drink it, in remembrance of me.” For as often as YOU eat this loaf and drink this cup, YOU keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives . -1 Corinthians 11:23-26

When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne . –Matthew 25:31

Another noteworthy evidence of Jesus’ having already arrived invisibly in glory is the separation of people into two distinct groups. –Awake! July 22, 1973 page 5

“The faithful and discreet slave” cannot be one person. Why not? Because the slave began serving spiritual food back in the first century, and according to Jesus, the slave would still be doing so when the Master arrived in 1914 . –Watchtower March 1, 2004 page 8

(Note: I want to keep this a short as possible since I want to be able to capture people's attention with brief "bullet" points having high impact)

I would take out the part I struck out. It adds unnecessary words. I was actually a little confused.

Another thing to note here is that Jesus said ALL authority has been given me.-- Matthew 28:18 So how did Jesus' position change in 1914? (Pssst... it didn't).

10

Letters to a friend about the memorial:

by ShadesofGrey in

[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> </w:worddocument> </xml><!

[endif][if !mso]> <object classid="clsid:38481807-ca0e-42d2-bf39-b33af135cc4d" id=ieooui> </object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <!

[endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"times new roman";} </style> <![endif].

ShadesofGrey

I think that they are keeping people away from a relationship with God by teaching that only 144,000 are God's Children with the Holy Spirit to guide them. Romans chapter 8, Matthew 13, 1 John 3 only have two classes of people and if they are not Children of God, they are not part of God's people at all. As a result, the Great Crowd has no mediator, no Heavenly Father, and no hope. I also see that if one is a Child of God, then one is part of the kingdom covenant as well.

1 John 5:1 Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been born from God,

Romans 8:8,9,16 8 So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God.

9 However, YOU are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if God’s spirit truly dwells in YOU. But if anyone does not have Christ’s spirit, this one does not belong to him.

YOU received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!” 16 The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Galatians 3:28,29 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for YOU are all one [person] in union with Christ Jesus. 29 Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, YOU are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise.

“But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts.”--1 Peter 3:15

His name should therefore be sanctified, or set apart as holy. -- Watchtower 1991 9/15 p. 7

…the title “Christ” means “Anointed One” --Watchtower 1969 1/1 p. 29

"First, though, these anointed Christians needed cleansing. As Malachi 3:1-5 had foretold, Jehovah God and his 'messenger of the covenant,' Jesus Christ, came to inspect the spiritual temple in the spring of 1918." Watchtower 1993 5/1 p. 15

Religious history is also full of charismatic leaders who inspired people to be devoted to them but who brought disaster upon their followers. “Be careful that no one misleads you,” warned Jesus, “for many men will come in my name saying ‘I am the Christ’, and they will mislead many.” (Matthew 24:4, 5, Phillips)—Watchtower 1998 2/15 p. 23

"The book YouMaySurviveArmageddonintoGod’sNewWorld, released last June, and the article “Jehovah Is in His Holy Temple,” published in the November 15 English issue of TheWatchtower, prove that Jehovah came accompanied by his Angel of the covenant, Jesus Christ, to the spiritual temple in the spring of 1918."--Watchtower 12/15/55 p. 748

Matthew 24: 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

I have decided to listen to Jesus instead of the Jehovah's Witness Governing Body.

1 John 2:27 And as for YOU, the anointing that YOU received from him remains in YOU, and YOU do not need anyone to be teaching YOU; but, as the anointing from him is teaching YOU about all things, and is true and is no lie, and just as it has taught YOU, remain in him.

23 He that confesses the Son has the Father also

Galatians 5:4;1 YOU are parted from Christ, whoever YOU are that try to be declared righteous by means of law; YOU have fallen away from his undeserved kindness. For such freedom Christ set us free. Therefore stand fast, and do not let yourselves be confined again in a yoke of slavery.