Posts by OutsiderLookingIn

36

Faith, where now?

by Theburstbubble in

so for the first time ever i went to a church service at my local church (coe) and i have to say it was awful!

it was just like a ritual.

the vicar would say something and then the congregation would all say a phrase in unison back to him.

OutsiderLookingIn

So for the first time ever I went to a church service at my local church (COE) and I have to say it was awful! It was just like a ritual. The vicar would say something and then the congregation would all say a phrase in unison back to him. In between were prayers, hymns etc. This went on for an hour. It was totally unfeeling and I'm not sure how people even learn about the bible at such places.

Hi burstbubble, what day did you attend the service? I've never been to a Sunday WT service so I don't know how that compares. But the Sunday service of most churches is a worship service so there would be songs/hymns, liturgical or scripture readings, then a sermon. Even then, there are different worship styles depending on the church you attend so maybe the one you attended was more subdued. Many churches have a midweek Bible study which is typically smaller and will go into more extended discussion of an passage of scripture, not a hopscotch of verses.

Keep trying. I certainly didn't find my church on the first try. Even after I went, I alternated with other places just to make sure. It's worth the effort. Definitely take your time to investigate, make sure you're comfortable and that what they're saying is scripturally sound. Hope that helps :)

53

Here is what kind of person (Prince) a celebrity JW is

by Terry in

jw
friends

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lhcparuzpc

OutsiderLookingIn

The MJ story was so sad. It really hurts me the long lasting and devastating effects these lies can have.

28

NEW PEW Research data on Jehovah's Witnesses just released

by Balaamsass2 in

i was expecting people who "identified" as jws to follow watchtower beliefs more closely than these pollsters report.. .

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/26/a-closer-look-at-jehovahs-witnesses-living-in-the-u-s/.

OutsiderLookingIn

ba2, I was going to say the same thing. I would like to see regional statistics. In NYC, in the public "ministry" (carts or standing with a magazine in hand) is predominantly black and Hispanic. A few Asian. I can count on one hand, maybe two, when I have seen white JWs out. Mind you, I take the subway at least twice a day. So the percentage of whites seems high as compared to my experience, but maybe they're not at the stops I frequent.

28

NEW PEW Research data on Jehovah's Witnesses just released

by Balaamsass2 in

i was expecting people who "identified" as jws to follow watchtower beliefs more closely than these pollsters report.. .

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/26/a-closer-look-at-jehovahs-witnesses-living-in-the-u-s/.

OutsiderLookingIn

Agree 100%, Coded Logic. There is a spectrum of JW belief. You can also add weak inactive ones (it's the truth even though I don't live it at all). Pretty much anyone in the Watchtower web of influence (somehow exposed to the teachings but unaware of TTATT) might identify as JW for survey purposes.

Also, this isn't a new survey. It's a re-release of the 2014 results in light of the death of Prince, the most famous and (superficially) unlikely JW. Will it generate interest in JWs, i.e. new converts? I doubt it.

42

Has Anybody Hear a Rumour That Prince Died?

by cofty in

why do people care so much about celebrities?

OutsiderLookingIn

I was a fan a lot of his music and musical ability so I was very sad to hear of his passing. It's a bit of nostalgia or remembering what his songs meant to me. He was also back on tour and making appearances (e.g., Grammys saying, like books and black lives, albums still matter). I know people who went to his recent concerts just weeks ago. So to go from that to "he's dead" was quite the shock and hard to take.

As to why there is so much interest in him on this forum, there are so many reasons. There has been much speculation here as to whether he was still an active JW. His sudden death brought those questions to the fore.

Then of course, there's the money. Did he or didn't he give it to the Watchtower? This was something that especially concerned me in the days after his death. I **really** hope he didn't leave them a dime. On one level, it's shocking that someone of his status wouldn't have a will. On another, who knows? Maybe Prince didn't have a will precisely because he thought Armageddon was happening any day now. I think this would be so perfect--just desserts for the Watchtower that for so long has counseled people not to plan for the future. In which case, it serves them right. On top of that, his philanthropy in life suggests to me he wouldn't give away all his money to an organization that does next to nothing to help anyone.

Also, for me it highlights the hypocrisy and double standards in this organization. My JW acquaintance called another performer "my idol" because I was happy about her recent engagement after an unsuccessful relationship. Um, what's idolatrous about that? That I can be happy for her even though her songs weren't about long skirts and religious magazines? Yet upon finding out that Prince was a JW (he claims not to have known before, even though I've known for years) has changed his avatar to Prince. Really!? How is that not idolatry? I'm just waiting for the perfect time to bring it up.

The Prince issue brings together everything the Watchtower claims to be but really isn't.

As to whether this will bring interest (studies or attendance increases), it remains to be seen. But what I have seen says nope. People still passing the carts by at the same rate. Ignored. No one cares. If you loved Prince, it was the music and who he was as a person that you loved, not his belief system.

36

There seems to be many jw's marrying outside of org recently.

by atomant in

l was wondering if others have noticed this or is just my imagination?my sister whom has always been a fine example of a dub just got married to an outsider was a shock to everyone as no one knew she was dating an outsider.she seems happy.the elders are to shit scared of her to approach her about the matter.

OutsiderLookingIn

I am serious. I said unsuspecting. I think there's a very large segment of the population who know next to nothing about JWs. I certainly didn't beyond not celebrating birthdays. Even the door-to-door work was more of a running joke than something I saw firsthand. The few JWs I knew were polite and pleasant enough. If you don't know anything substantive, it seems like something you can just smooth out or that's not that big a deal.Then add that some (many?) JWs don't broadcast or even bother to mention that they're dubs. They just get you hooked and drop the news. Of course, everyone makes silly decisions in love, but the situation is complicated by a belief system that considers you evil just because you don't ascribe to it. That's a lot to fight against especially if you don't know all these factors are working against you.

I really do hope for true love and compatibility. I love love, but the JW factor makes it hard. If the JW really doesn't want their partner to become a witness, that's a plus. But how does that work on a daily basis? Can the JW life coexist with "normal" events in the life of a non-JW? That's not rhetorical; I really want to know.

Getmeout, sounds like you pass with flying colors :) Just remember, non-JWs aren't all the same. There are nice people and there are creeps too. But give people a chance...at least more than you ever did as a JW. We're all just trying to make it through this thing called life.

36

There seems to be many jw's marrying outside of org recently.

by atomant in

l was wondering if others have noticed this or is just my imagination?my sister whom has always been a fine example of a dub just got married to an outsider was a shock to everyone as no one knew she was dating an outsider.she seems happy.the elders are to shit scared of her to approach her about the matter.

OutsiderLookingIn

I have to say something here. Reposting something I posted a few months ago: I often see this question (or some statement that JWs should date outside their small pool) and it strikes me as selfish and patently unfair to the unsuspecting non-JW on the other end. We don't know about all your rules and those that do wish we didn't.

I'm all for compatibility and finding your true love but quite honestly, there should be some qualifying test for JWs before they can date or marry non-JWs:

1. Do you still believe JWs have "the truth"?

2. Do you secretly look down on or feel sorry for the person because he or she is not a JW?

3. Are you dating this person out of rebellion or youthful indiscretion and will kick him/her to the curb once you "grow out of it"?

If you answered "yes" to any of these questions, please step away from the "worldly" person and let us be. Let us live out our sad, unfulfilled lives until we get killed at Armageddon

Newsflash: we're people too. We have feelings. We're looking for love and happiness, sometimes in the wrong places. We're well aware that there are bad apples out there but many of us learn discernment because we have to. We don't assume everyone is depraved, awful or immoral just because they're not a JW. We judge people as individuals.

I'm not encouraged by this "development" if it means some unsuspecting "worldly" has to deal with the secret world of JWs. Especially since we already know JWs feel very comfortable leaving out very important details...theocratic warfare and all If it makes for future ex-JWs, though, it's definitely something to consider.

34

My boyfriend is thinking of becoming reinstated

by gypsyvine in

i'm not really sure where to post this.. i've been with my boyfriend for 4 months now and i've really never been happier.

i was brought up in the church of christ with an elder father and i really believe in my religion, although i will admit to being a lousy christian at times due to sheer laziness (not wanting to get out of bed on sunday).

my boyfriend essentially lives with me.

OutsiderLookingIn

Giordano, it was my advice--my advice having never been a JW. I'm not that old (early 30s) and a single woman so I know the game. The situation being what it is, it was very sound advice: she met him when he was temporarily DF'd (only several months); they date for four months and he's trying to get reinstated. Not to mention, he says he wants to marry her but would only do so in secret. All of this says to me it's very likely he's still indoctrinated.

So they know they're sexually compatible; that's great. But sex can also make you think it's love when it's really just hormones. Been there, done that, have the T-shirt. Because none of us knows the future and because as a non-JW, she is very unfamiliar with the wacky world of JWs, it's best to exercise some caution until she has more information that isn't emotionally charged. If he really cares for her, waiting on the sex while she figures things out won't be a deal breaker. But he may just want to have his cake and eat it too (sex/relationship with a "worldly" girl while getting reinstated into a belief system he believes in). And if he still believes it's the "truth", he might be expecting her to convert or at a minimum live in accordance with it--no holidays or birthday celebrations. No, he may never verbalize it, but it's probably a "given" in his mind. Of course, he'll want his children to live the best way of life.

I obviously don't know the details of every case and I'm glad for every relationship that survives the WT curtain. But I have read some stories here about UBMs who didn't really know what JWs were all about or didn't intervene in a baptism because they thought it was harmless. My first suggestion was to get informed. It wasn't judgment or ill will. If they can live happily ever after with him reinstated and thumbing his nose at WT rules, then that's fantastic. But with the situation as it was presented, that was my advice and I stand by it.

5

help me understand: i can't find where in the new testament it states the partakes go to heaven

by goingthruthemotions in

so i am trying to gather some data so i could present to my wife.

i keep showing her john 6 where it states you need to partake of the bread and wine to be resurrected and in union with jesus and have everlasting life.. but, where in the bible does it say if you partake your going to heaven?

is this a wtbs twisting of scripture to fit there doctrine?.

OutsiderLookingIn

The Bible doesn't say that anywhere, just like 144,000 is never mentioned outside the book of Revelation. I think they point to Luke 22:28-30, what Jesus said to His disciples after the Lord's Supper. He told them they would have a kingdom and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel. So it only makes sense if you've already accepted the 144,000 doctrine, which itself makes no sense. First, if Jesus was telling them they'd judge the 12 tribes (which are the 144,000), how can the disciples correspond to the 144,000/anointed? Second, it completely ignores the fact that John 6 (which you've discussed with your wife) was spoken to a larger and still not-anointed group than just the apostles who shared the bread and cup with Jesus.

On a happier note, it seems like you're making some progress even if it is slow. That's great! Don't give up!

25

Happy Resurrection Sunday

by Perry in

jw
friends

.

wishing everyone a happy resurrection sunday.... from my family to yours!.

OutsiderLookingIn

Perry, I know what you mean about letting Christ do the work. I grew up in church, was a good kid, had a strong sense of justice and generally wanted to do the right thing. But it was the day I realized that we can't "be good" in our own strength and God never expected us to-- that it all clicked for me and my faith became real. Jesus died for me! And more than that, He is risen indeed :) I hope you had a wonderful Resurrection Sunday with the family.