what do you sincerely think?
do you nurture any hope?.
notsurewheretogo,
Nobody can convince anyone. I didn't believe because someone told me, I believe because I saw. You can't make an appeal to majority for truth, you know many hold erroneous beliefs.
Again, how do YOU arrive at truth? At some point you are trusting your senses, fallible as they may be.
what do you sincerely think?
do you nurture any hope?.
notsurewheretogo
How can you tell whatever experience you had was in fact "real"? Might it be "real" in your mind only?
How can you trust any of your senses, let alone prove your existence? There are many assumptions we take for granted in order for us to arrive to certain conclusions and beliefs.
If my experience with the shaman doing the egg cleaning, "limpia" in Spanish, was all in my head, then yes I belong in a mental institution. However, what I saw and heard was with my own eyes. I trust it wasn't a dream, and I trust it wasn't just me being crazy. I also trust the black ink that came out was no sleight of hand, same as the bubble over the yolk that looked like an eye. Those were eggs I BOUGHT at the store.
what do you sincerely think?
do you nurture any hope?.
nicolau
Interesting that you don't disclose what these "things" are.
I did, I will be happy to talk about my experiences, but you can read about some of mines and those of others here.
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6318622471356416/spirit-channeling-wallkills-bethel?page=2
what do you sincerely think?
do you nurture any hope?.
I used to be an atheist. I've seen things that made me change my mind.
I believe Christ is risen. He will grant eternal life to all who believe in him.
look what an ex-bethelite has to say about the spirit channeling he saw first hand up at wallkill:.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfmqnzbyrko.
now i believe rayven's story of horror at brooklyn bethel:.
Ok deegee, what do you mean by being a Christian after you left the WT?
I understand and feel your frustration. My line of reasoning after leaving the WT was the opposite. I became an atheist and a skeptic. I believed that materialism is all there is, that consciousness is a product of very complex chemical reactions and the summation of physical processes. I came to believe that anyone that had experienced any type of supernatural event was either crazy, misguided (they interpreted the event as supernatural when there was a perfectly natural explanation for it) or something else along those lines.
I figured that since this stuff never happened when put through to the rigorous scientific method or never happened under controlled lab conditions, that all accounts must therefore be false. I even wrote off an encounter I had as something I had experienced merely as an emotional reaction.
Regardless of our beliefs, I've come to the conclusion that there is more to reality than the physical. Based on what I've seen, heard, and felt, I can no longer suscribe to a strictly material universe.
look what an ex-bethelite has to say about the spirit channeling he saw first hand up at wallkill:.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfmqnzbyrko.
now i believe rayven's story of horror at brooklyn bethel:.
I'm quoting this:
It was as just as well that I engaged in spiritism, use a Ouija board etc. since praying to God was of no use and yielded the same results of demonic attack which is also produced by being involved in these things (according to Christians).
look what an ex-bethelite has to say about the spirit channeling he saw first hand up at wallkill:.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfmqnzbyrko.
now i believe rayven's story of horror at brooklyn bethel:.
deegee:
Why didn't God just simply tell me that I was doing the wrong thing and that I should stop meditating on what I read in WT literature and heard from talks etc and help me to do the right thing instead of just sitting back and allowing the demons to attack me?
It was as just as well that I engaged in spiritism, use a Ouija board etc. since praying to God was of no use and yielded the same results of demonic attack which is also produced by being involved in these things (according to Christians).
BUT WHAT IS MORE is that long after I left the JWs and remained a Christian I still continued to be clairvoyant, psychic, hear voices, see visions etc. So it couldn't be the "false doctrines" of the WT literature and talks etc. that were causing me to become susceptible to demonic attack which resulted in my psychic abilities etc. as you claim.
Would God give you anything that would make you become crazy? I don't think so. It is true that servants of God would become uneasy about certain visions, but the fear would eventually subside.
You said you also engaged in spiritism and used a Ouija board. You know those things are forbidden. However, I also tried them so I claim no higher moral ground than you. The egg account was very real, not just a sleight of hand. I also began to research the occult more after that and found many accounts of ex-satanists, ex-occultists, ex-witches, that recounted their stories and how Christ freed them from all that.
I'll link you to an incredible account that literally changed my life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M_8lI0-7b0
I did just as he did, I gave my life to Christ, and it was then that the attacks really manifested. I would be just about to fall asleep, and I would feel a jolt in my chest, it felt as if a push. I had had panic attacks before (they would begin with rapid heartbeats, and a feeling that I was about to suffer a heart attack soon), but this was different. As soon as I would be drifting off into sleep, I would feel the jolt/push on my chest. I wouldn't feel it any other time except then. This went on for several hours. I was really tired and I was becoming frustrated. I would tell the spirits to leave in Jesus' name, but the attack wouldn't stop. I figured I may very well die, but I wasn't going to give up my faith. I also heard a very clear whisper that woke me up as soon as I was drifting off "Psst, hey!". I did a lot of praying in those moments. The night after that I had a similar experience, except I also had a terrible dream where I felt like my heart was being crushed by a hand. I woke up screaming at 4:30 am and awoke my sister. I have had nightmares, but I have never woken up screaming like that. After that night, the attacks and the panic attacks I had previously had disappeared.
deegee, I hope you can go to God again, for he is not far from any of us. I hope you can find peace with him through Christ. God loves you.
look what an ex-bethelite has to say about the spirit channeling he saw first hand up at wallkill:.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfmqnzbyrko.
now i believe rayven's story of horror at brooklyn bethel:.
deegee,
I don't have an adequate response to your question as regards to the source. You said you also read the WT. I believe they have false doctrine. Through much study, and ironically from one of cofty's posts, I came to the conclusion that JWs treat Jesus wrong. They don't elevate him to the position he deserves. Sure, they pay him lip service, but they aren't allowed to pray directly to him. You will never hear a JW day say they are a slave of Christ.
What I do want to get at, is simply that you didn't merely imagine things. This clairvoyant ability was from an external source, not something your subconscious mind merely produced. Were you ever accurate in your predictions? I think even some accuracy would demolish the claim that these things were just fabrications of an over active, superstitious mind.
I did try to reset, but I have an email I don't use and that I also forgot the password for. I pmed Simon, but never got a response. Either way, I'm not concerned.
I'm relieved I didn't offend you. I like the exchange we are having. I can share more stories of the supernatural if you like.
look what an ex-bethelite has to say about the spirit channeling he saw first hand up at wallkill:.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfmqnzbyrko.
now i believe rayven's story of horror at brooklyn bethel:.
My fault deegee. I haven't read the Bible enough. Thank you for those texts.
I still contend that what you saw was real then. I do believe there is more to reality than the material world. I stand by that affirmation, and I believe God exists too.
look what an ex-bethelite has to say about the spirit channeling he saw first hand up at wallkill:.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfmqnzbyrko.
now i believe rayven's story of horror at brooklyn bethel:.
deegee, I didn't mean to offend you. I'm using this new account because I forgot my password on the other account.
Prayer and meditation is not wrong. You're right, it's biblical. What makes me doubt is the fact you became clairvoyant and started channeling through writing, among other things. God doesn't give us those abilities. He can give us ability to heal, cast out demons, but those things you mentioned are not mentioned in the Bible.
When we pray to him, we don't seem those powers, only to do his will.
I've also prayed to Jesus as well. I used to think that was heresy, but Paul did so, and it seems that was the practice of the 1st century Christians.
I don't for a second doubt your account. I don't believe you were merely taking to yourself, and I don't think you just thought you had powers. All I disagree upon is the source of these powers.
The egg account isn't my only experience, I have had others.
