Posts by WireRider

41

The positive achievements of Science and Religion in 2015. How do they compare?

by nicolaou in

science.. landed a probe on a comet, found liquid water on mars and successfully completed a ten year mission to pluto.. developed the first successful vaccine against ebola, discovered another human species in homo naledi, developed cancer killing molecules and high intensity ultrasound therapies which avoid surgery and leave healthy cells alone.

successfully mapped the human epigenome and developed the gene editing tool crispr, it's potential for medical and agricultural advance is staggering!.

found a way to produce graphene for a 1000th of the previous cost, developed cheap and sustainable methods to supply clean drinking water where water borne infections have been killing thousands, scaled up production of clean, renewable energy.. there's loads more, please feel free to add to the list.. .

WireRider

WireRider, my opening question was clear and fair.

Your opening question was clear, but it is not fair. It is not a mutually exclusive argument to propose. I commented because I see it a lot and don't understand it. Why does Religion vs. Science have to have a winner? Why does there have be a winner?

Let's put it this way, probe had closer that ever picture of Pluto - water is a provable probability on Mars. The Voyager probe has left our solar system. How has any of science dicredited religion?

The Watchtower doesn't help anyone but themselves. Mainstream religions in 2015 have help many many people throughout the world. Christians (Catholics and Protestants) have helped to support millions of people around the world. 2015 and every year. The homeless and the needy. No matter who they are and whatever faith they have. Nothing has necessarily has changed. The Christians help and serve people. The Watchtower demands more money from a slave sales force and says fuck everyone else - including police, ambulance, and firefighters they fully expect tax exempt for free - a blight on society. I have to pay there share and they do nothing to support the communities they invade and completely annoy.

Christians have not changed in a long time. They help everyone needing help every year. What does close up pictures of Pluto do to help people?

41

The positive achievements of Science and Religion in 2015. How do they compare?

by nicolaou in

science.. landed a probe on a comet, found liquid water on mars and successfully completed a ten year mission to pluto.. developed the first successful vaccine against ebola, discovered another human species in homo naledi, developed cancer killing molecules and high intensity ultrasound therapies which avoid surgery and leave healthy cells alone.

successfully mapped the human epigenome and developed the gene editing tool crispr, it's potential for medical and agricultural advance is staggering!.

found a way to produce graphene for a 1000th of the previous cost, developed cheap and sustainable methods to supply clean drinking water where water borne infections have been killing thousands, scaled up production of clean, renewable energy.. there's loads more, please feel free to add to the list.. .

WireRider

Christianity is more about existentialism and more about the celebration of life. Sure - short life span and there is more. When it comes. It is not on the calendar for Feb 1st 2016. It is not on any calendar.

the Adventists and Arianists are focused on hurry up hurry up - Armageddon - can't wait. Hurry. Hurry.

Religion is asserting we know things that we do not.

Yes. But science is asserting we know things that we do not. And then we set out to prove it to the best of our evolving abilities. Both require a certain amount of "faith" - or theory No one in science just ambles around aimlessly. Religion is a science, a faith, we are just far from proving it, to our satisfaction, either way. We don't have the definitions yet or the words. We'll get there. I just hope that people are not disappointed by the answers. What if humans reach a point to control weather, terraform a planet, genetically manipulate the indigenous animals - does that make us God? - or do we finally solve religious questions? Not that far off.

59

Why don't you do anything?

by WireRider in

i'm not jw, so i see this all standing up and very clear from an outsider perspective (i am still seeking my path).

i joined the blog a few weeks ago.

i dated a divorced jw (jw from birth) for a couple of years recently.

WireRider

I don't believe in Armageddon. It is used to teach and indoctrinate and use the Bible to scare the shit out of people - you should be wary of any lakes. The Earth will cease to exist at some point - but not the 12 times the Watchtower claimed in the past and completely promised to have inside information for. Or in Watchtower terms "subscription drive".

nicolaou - I do do have a belief in Heaven and Hell. Just not on this planet. The people of the time who describe Heaven and Hell wouldn't have had the words or the understanding to define them accurately. I just don't run around preaching that God said I would rule a Kingdom on Earth. I would argue that the Watchtower is a very demonstrated false prophet per the very bible they teach - and a flat out lair. That makes them not a religion - at least by the very bible and the context they are in. The cattle prods with a barrier to exit make them a cult.

That is much different from today - saying, and threatening, that they can separate you from your family and friends if you don't do what some humans tell you to do. Or face some tribunal of elders who think they are somehow thing they are better than you and have a right to sit in judgement. Not a Biblical religion - a biblical excuse from a small group of humans.

41

The positive achievements of Science and Religion in 2015. How do they compare?

by nicolaou in

science.. landed a probe on a comet, found liquid water on mars and successfully completed a ten year mission to pluto.. developed the first successful vaccine against ebola, discovered another human species in homo naledi, developed cancer killing molecules and high intensity ultrasound therapies which avoid surgery and leave healthy cells alone.

successfully mapped the human epigenome and developed the gene editing tool crispr, it's potential for medical and agricultural advance is staggering!.

found a way to produce graphene for a 1000th of the previous cost, developed cheap and sustainable methods to supply clean drinking water where water borne infections have been killing thousands, scaled up production of clean, renewable energy.. there's loads more, please feel free to add to the list.. .

WireRider

I don't understand why people insist on making the comparison. Is it judgmental or defensive? I honestly believe that in a million years we will find out that there is no real difference.

Religion is worshiping things we don't yet understand. Science is the compulsion to find out what we don't understand. Both seek a better, longer, meaning of, life.

What if we are here to play in this sandbox until we do figure things out? It could be by design. We want our kids to learn and figure things out on their own. Parents are encouragers - nurturers. I have striven to be an educational advocate for my Daughter - not handing answers. Now she is in collage to be a rocket scientist (seriously. she is majoring in aerospace engineering.)

What is the comparison? If I were to argue on the side of religion, do you expect ALL answers to be at your feet for it to be real? Science is making great strides in knowledge. It doesn't depredacate religion. What if figuring out religion is the final goal of science? Both are human compulsions to find the answers/truth.

Interesting tidbit I posted once. Article I read about 15 years ago. A graduate student was working on a paper and reviewing hundreds of brain scans. He thought he mixed up two folders as the results were nearly identical. One was scans of opiate addicts high during the scan. The other - of devoutly religious people praying during the scan. They had the same strong neural activity in certain areas of the brain. I think humans were intentionally designed with a predisposition for religion. There is a big missing gap of human evolution that no one has been able to explain. Just maybe humans are interested in religion because of the science that went in to us - and maybe religion and science will finally converge when we find our answers - which might be the same thing.

59

Why don't you do anything?

by WireRider in

i'm not jw, so i see this all standing up and very clear from an outsider perspective (i am still seeking my path).

i joined the blog a few weeks ago.

i dated a divorced jw (jw from birth) for a couple of years recently.

WireRider

nicolaou - I don't believe in any religion the has to threaten and intimidate and brainwash people to stay when they don't want to and don't believe in it. Why are those programs carefully used and enforced? Force people into "special" committees, hearings, tribunals to scare the crap out of people to follow their human rules. Out of fear - very few even get that far. Force people to stay to control the herd.

The WT is not God - they have never spoken to God - he NEVER chose them for anything at all, and have no right to judge people or impose their selfish human rules on people that don't want it. The Watchtower ARE the false prophets the Bible warns about - and to burn in the lake of fire with Satan. Nice group to defend. From the book they claim to advocate - but heavily edit just to support their needs. The book was assembled by Catholics - a religion they loath and rail against for kicking out Arius - but they still use THEIR book. The WT is not Christian - if anything they are Jewish - believe in YHWH but not the divinity of Jesus - that is Jewish. But then again you had Rutherford who was sending fan mail to Hitler for killing Jews - ironic. But he did adopt Hitler's brainwashing and extreme propaganda and control from the Hitler youth program for kids - why do you think all of your holidays were canceled?

The Watchtower is so scared shitless that people will find out the truth and leave (or infect the herd) that they forbid holidays in which members may socialize with real people - preach hate against other religions to keep them away and forbid members from every going to a Church - they cannot even call their own buildings Churches - not allowed to - they are not Churches. They are indoctrination centers. Here - read my questions out loud and then read my answers out loud. huh? It's behavioral training.

Religion is a spiritual following - not how many cows you can shove into a pen - and keep them from ever getting out - or from ever finding out there is an out.

59

Why don't you do anything?

by WireRider in

i'm not jw, so i see this all standing up and very clear from an outsider perspective (i am still seeking my path).

i joined the blog a few weeks ago.

i dated a divorced jw (jw from birth) for a couple of years recently.

WireRider

At least 30% would get up and walk out if there were no bad personal consequences - most of those under 40 who had to grow up in it. Is that how you rack up claims of total attending members? Threats and intimidation?

Prove it. Stop the shunning and threats.

I thought Russell promised that if he ever had to ask for money - his work did not have God's blessing - he would stop and close everything. Guess what?

59

Why don't you do anything?

by WireRider in

i'm not jw, so i see this all standing up and very clear from an outsider perspective (i am still seeking my path).

i joined the blog a few weeks ago.

i dated a divorced jw (jw from birth) for a couple of years recently.

WireRider

If the WT dropped their policy of religious terrorism - to "disfellowship" for not following their rules and threats to cut people off from family and friends by threatening to cut them off if they do not shun - how many people would just walk out and never go back?

The Church I grew up in had an open door, welcoming policy. You are invited at any time. You can leave at any time if it's not your thing. Leave for while - come back any time your want. Even it's just on the holidays - good to see you again. Come in jeans and a tee-shirt - glad you could join us. We were happy to see people. Donate - don't donate - it's up to you. No mothership - the money doesn't go to Brooklyn - it is used to help the community and some outreach for missionaries - it doesn't go into any pockets or any luxuries for a select few - it goes to support this Church and help the needy and the local community. Where does WT money go?

WTF is this timecard and shunning thing? I guess I just don't get a cult that has such rules to control people and force them to stay where they don't want to be. What is that? It is herding cattle to control them. That is not a religion.

59

Why don't you do anything?

by WireRider in

i'm not jw, so i see this all standing up and very clear from an outsider perspective (i am still seeking my path).

i joined the blog a few weeks ago.

i dated a divorced jw (jw from birth) for a couple of years recently.

WireRider

I still see a lot of "fake" "I don't want to be here" people. I wish those that want out could just walk out. It is ridiculous for any "church" to practice radicalized religion. To say if you leave they have the right to cut you off from any contact with your family and friends.

I understand there are those that are really in - and should be allowed to do their thing. But all those just not in, should be allowed to leave without threats by a church.

51

Your Opinion Pleeease

by thankyou in

jw girl non-jw guy.

tenuous boyfriend-girlfriend relationship.

what is more likely to strengthen a relationship?.

WireRider

I really don't understand how anyone can think "just don't talk about religion" "just ignore it" when it comes to a couple's lives together.

My JW girlfriend kept saying it was not a big deal. I go to my church and you go to yours. "I have several close friends married to Christians" - I think that was a big, early, turning point for me. I know the JW claim to be Christians, for the sake of comfort, but she made a clear differentiation between JW and Christians.

I read. I asked. She kept saying she would work it out she would work it out she would work it out. The fact is that there is no way she and I could ever really be together that wouldn't cause the WATCHTOWER from disfellowshiping her and cutting her off from her family.

I think that there is a very high percentage of WATCHTOWER people that are just trapped. They don't want to be there. They don't believe their bullshit version of a fake bible. But they are terrorized. If they leave the WATCHTOWER will cut them off from all family and friends by terrorizing them.

I wish all that want out - could just leave. Do what they want. Not have their family terrorized to shun them. That is a very very cowardly form of forcing membership.

The WATCHTOWER set up a forced arranged marriage. Neighborhood guy - member of the KH. "Dated" for exactly 3 months - "engaged" for exactly 3 months - "elder" in a KH - routinely beat the crap out her and treated her like property like he was taught. Thankfully she got out of the marriage. Now they will never let her have a family of her own because she wasn't obedient and didn't like getting hit, by an "elder".

51

Your Opinion Pleeease

by thankyou in

jw girl non-jw guy.

tenuous boyfriend-girlfriend relationship.

what is more likely to strengthen a relationship?.

WireRider

I still texted her a few days ago to say "Merry Christmas"