Cedars, thanks for the update. Bottom line is: The Society and its lawyers speak with forked tongue. With theocratic warfare, and all that, they cannot be trusted to speak the truth, especially when under attack.
Posts by Vidqun
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339Patterson on the line: Watchtower claims that paying cash bond would cause immediate irreparable harm and hardship
by cedars ina new article for those who are interested.... http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/patterson-on-the-line-watchtower-claims-that-paying-cash-bond-would-cause-immediate-irreparable-harm-and-hardship.
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cedars.
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The Very Latest Candace Conti vs. The Watchtower News
by God_Delusion inwe all saw this coming - http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/jw-lawsuits/latest-candace-conti-news/.
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Vidqun
No, I do think they have a cash flow problem, as Outlaw suggests. In different circumstances, the wealthy brothers might have put up the cash. But these are no ordinary circumstances, and the protection of pedophiles (and the consequences of that) does not go down well, even with indoctrinated R&F. And because of economic hardship and related problems (e.g. discouraging secular study) the contributions are indeed drying up. Was there not a thread of a recent CO visit organized to collect money? And what about bank teller machines at assemblies? We are going to see and hear a lot more of that, mark my words.
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Did they just show themselves to be the "evil slave?"
by leaving_quietly inmatt 24:48-50: "but if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, 'my master is delaying,' and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards,the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites.
there is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.".
notice, the slave only has to say it "in his heart.
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Vidqun
By implication, what future is there for those that remain in the Borg? They will be beaten and mistreated.
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Did they just show themselves to be the "evil slave?"
by leaving_quietly inmatt 24:48-50: "but if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, 'my master is delaying,' and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards,the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites.
there is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.".
notice, the slave only has to say it "in his heart.
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Vidqun
I know they have become the evil slave in the way they handle the pedophile problem. Only the evil slave will be willing to endanger children in order for him to uphold a fallible (two witness) doctrine, sourced from the Mosaic Law. Last I heard, the Mosaic Law should not be applied to Christians.
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Questions on new understanding (FDS - GB)
by Weana insome questions arise with the new understanding:.
was there a slave class between the 1st century and the 20th century?.
in w march 1, 2004, it was stated, that the slave could not be a single man, because "acording to jesus words" the slave had started his work in 1st century and would still be in action in 20th century.. was the slave in action in 1914?
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Vidqun
According to my understanding, they will only be rewarded after they have done the job. So, when they go to heaven they will be appointed over all the belongings. Problem with that is, none of the "other sheep" then qualify to be of the FDS=GB. Am I right or do I have the cat by the tail?
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We will decide who is a predator! New Watchtower Instructions to Elders on Child Abuse
by Jaime l de Aragon inmust read on jehovahs witnesses watchtower arrogance in failure to warn of congregation pedophiles.. http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/we-will-decide-who-is-a-predator-new-watchtower-instructions-to-elders-on-child-abuse?fb_action_ids=10151270345663993&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582.
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Vidqun
Yadda, they have a problem recruiting new elders and MS as it is. They don't want some of them ending up in prison, do they? As previous threads brought out, even if an elder admits to wrongdoing many years ago, and Jehovah blesses him, then he's all right. And nobody will confess their pedophile habits when they know they will be reported (and end up in prison). No, the children will continue to suffer and predators/pedophiles will continue to flourish. They will give out enough rope, eventually to hang themselves. Soon, I hope!
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What you should keep in mind about apologists like Recovery, Alice, etc.
by Fencing ini don't post here much, but read often.
seen quite a few jw apologists and trolls come and go.
they are almost always successful at getting a good number of people here upset and riled up, leading to personal attacks.
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Vidqun
Yes, I agree with you Fencing. Letters and numbers is a good example. To start off with, he was all for JWs and their GB. But he soon changed his tune. In his final posts, even though long-winded, he was vehemently opposed to them.
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Vidqun
Well, it's not such a bad thing. Ultimately, when things go wrong and the brown matter hits the fan, then they must take responsibility. Blame will go there where it's due. They have effectively put their heads on the block. Let's hope for their sake, the axeman is a long way off.
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Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd
by Recovery injwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.
i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.
1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.
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Vidqun
A repeat for Recovery. I think you missed it last time round.
A good idea would be to take advice from Emanuel Tov, a very clever, but at the same time humble and pragmatic scholar, emphasizing the difference between objectivity and subjectivity.
A definition of objectivity: “involving or deriving from sense perception or experience with actual objects, conditions, or phenomena”, e.g., objective awareness or data (Webster). Unfortunately the scope of an interpreter is limited, having to rely on the Biblical account, historical sources, as well as commentaries, to the detriment of true objectivity.
A definition of subjectivity is: “characteristic of belonging to reality as perceived rather than independent of mind” or “modified or affected by a personal view, experience or background”, e.g., subjective judgment (Webster).
Objective elements pertain to the description of the text as well as comparative historical data. However, the disciplines of translation as well as exegesis fall squarely in the subjective camp. In addition, a combination of subjective criteria and intuition is necessary to establish the importance of differences in ancient and modern translations, compared to the MT [Masoretic Text]. On the whole, something considered a solid fact by one scholar is contested by another. Because of the nature of interpretation, it attests to a great deal of subjectivity, which should be taken in account when appraising Biblical material.
The best explanation I have heard to explain your point of view is not found in Revelation at all, but in the book of Isaiah (66:1a). But keep in mind, it is based on interpretation according to the book of Isaiah. As Leolaia demonstrated, interpretation according to the book of Revelation would point in different direction altogether. At all times keep an open mind and do not try and enforce your interpretation on others. It might come back to haunt you (cf. E. Tov, Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible, p. 22).
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Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd
by Recovery injwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.
i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.
1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.
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Vidqun
Recovery, a good idea would be to take advice from Emanuel Tov, a very clever, but at the same time humble and pragmatic scholar, emphasizing the difference between objectivity and subjectivity.
A definition of objectivity: “involving or deriving from sense perception or experience with actual objects, conditions, or phenomena”, e.g., objective awareness or data (Webster). Unfortunately the scope of an interpreter is limited, having to rely on the Biblical account, historical sources, as well as commentaries, to the detriment of true objectivity.
A definition of subjectivity is: “characteristic of belonging to reality as perceived rather than independent of mind” or “modified or affected by a personal view, experience or background”, e.g., subjective judgment (Webster).
Objective elements pertain to the description of the text as well as comparative historical data. However, the disciplines of translation as well as exegesis fall squarely in the subjective camp. In addition, a combination of subjective criteria and intuition is necessary to establish the importance of differences in ancient and modern translations, compared to the MT [Masoretic Text]. On the whole, something considered a solid fact by one scholar is contested by another. Because of the nature of interpretation, it attests to a great deal of subjectivity, which should be taken in account when appraising Biblical material.
The best explanation I have heard to explain your point of view is not found in Revelation at all, but in the book of Isaiah (66:1a). But keep in mind, it is based on interpretation according to the book of Isaiah. As Leolaia demonstrated, interpretation according to the book of Revelation would point in different direction altogether. At all times keep an open mind and do not try and enforce your interpretation on others. It might come back to haunt you (cf. E. Tov, Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible, p. 22).