Viv, you're mistaken if you think we are dealing with science in this thread. Prophecy, apocalypticism, theology, are not about science. I think that's your problem. Rather try categorizing them under history (prophecy = history in advance), which you will find is not an exact "science" at all. Earlier you referred to the Messiah being cut off with nothing for himself. That's exactly what happened. Jesus Christ as king designate was paraded before the people (the end point of 69 weeks of years). A week later he was killed "with nothing for himself." It works for me, a brilliant prophecy that was indeed fulfilled in detail. Let's not concentrate on Archer's philosophy in life, rather note what he said, which is a prophecy in itself.
Posts by Vidqun
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250Biblical Prohecies That Came True?
by Viviane inrecently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.
i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.
i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.
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250
Biblical Prohecies That Came True?
by Viviane inrecently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.
i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.
i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.
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Vidqun
Back to what we are discussing, Gleason L. Archer could and did. He demonstrated that Daniel's Aramaic is much older than the Aramaic of the Genesis Apocryphon, discovered amongst the DSS (dated 200 BCE). He forced the following concession from John J. Collins, a staunch defender of a late date Daniel: While acknowledging that a “precise dating on linguistic grounds is not possible,” Collins concludes that the Aramaic of Daniel is later than that of the Samaria papyri (Wadi Daliyeh, fourth century BCE) but earlier than that of the Genesis Apocryphon (1Q20). Collins does not believe in predictive prophecy, thus his late date for the book of Daniel (ca. 165 BCE). But the further back the compilation date of Daniel is pushed, the more relevant his prophecies become. That's why Archer said what he said.
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250
Biblical Prohecies That Came True?
by Viviane inrecently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.
i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.
i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.
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Vidqun
Yes , you're right. Rome wasn't mentioned. History, Josephus amongst others, tells us it was Rome. The Maccabees (also most modern scholars) believed it to be Antiochus IV Epiphanes. These are all mistaken. Antiochus never destroyed the city or the temple. That's why Jesus encouraged the reader of the prophecy to use discernment (Matt. 24:15 NW). Rotherham's translation says, "let him think." You need to think to understand. Jesus went on to say, not a stone upon a stone will be left (Matt. 24:2). That also came true.
But, sad to say, all these arguments are in vain. Gleason L. Archer, a conservative scholar, summed it up quite well when he said: “The committed antisupernaturalist, who can only explain the successful predictions of Daniel as prophecies after the fulfillment…. is not likely to be swayed by any amount of objective evidence whatever.”
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250
Biblical Prohecies That Came True?
by Viviane inrecently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.
i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.
i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.
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Vidqun
25 And you should know and have the insight [that] from the going forth of [the] word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah [the] Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks. She will return and be actually rebuilt, with a public square and moat, but in the straits of the times.
26 And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah will be cut off, with nothing for himself. And the city and the holy place the people of a leader that is coming will bring to their ruin. And the end of it will be by the flood. And until [the] end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations.
City under discussion: Jerusalem (and its temple). Time period: After seventy weeks of years. Destroyer: Titus and his Roman legions. That's quite specific.
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250
Biblical Prohecies That Came True?
by Viviane inrecently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.
i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.
i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.
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Vidqun
Try this one: When was the book of Daniel written? Most modern scholars prefer ca. 165 BCE or earlier. A few Daniel MSS were found amongst the DSS dated 200 BCE – 68 CE.
24 There are seventy weeks that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, and to finish off sin, and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite, and to imprint a seal upon vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies.
25 And you should know and have the insight [that] from the going forth of [the] word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah [the] Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks. She will return and be actually rebuilt, with a public square and moat, but in the straits of the times.
26 And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah will be cut off, with nothing for himself. And the city and the holy place the people of a leader that is coming will bring to their ruin. And the end of it will be by the flood. And until [the] end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations.
27 And he must keep [the] covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease. And upon the wing of disgusting things there will be the one causing desolation; and until an extermination, the very thing decided upon will go pouring out also upon the one lying desolate. ( Dan 9:24-27 NWT)
According to above prophecy, war would ravage the land and its people until the end. And this is exactly what happened. The Jews were in a state of war and rebellion against the Roman oppressors, until the Roman legions, under General Titus, surrounded Jerusalem. The end of the Jewish system came in 70 CE with the destruction of Jerusalem . Jesus confirmed this in the compound prophecies he made known during his sermon on the Mount of Olives (cf. Matt. 24 , Mark 13 , and Luke 21).
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Need help talking with my JW mom who's now willing to "listen" to what we have to say...
by 2pink inmy husband and i (both born in jws--entire extended families all still in excpet for my sister) left the church 5 years ago.
i literally woke up one day and realized it wasn't the "truth".
i did not fade, i just left and told my family i didn't believe it anymore.
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Vidqun
Sorry, double post. I did not realize their are two threads. Thought my first post had disappeared.
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Need help talking with my JW mom who's now willing to "listen" to what we have to say...
by 2pink inmy husband and i (both born in jws--entire extended families all still in excpet for my sister) left the church 5 years ago.
i literally woke up one day and realized it wasn't the "truth".
i did not fade, i just left and told my family i didn't believe it anymore.
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Vidqun
Their involvement with the UN and OSCE come as a big schock to long-serving JWs. Last week, my mother asked a circuit overseer's wife about their involvement with the OSCE. She answered: "The Society will NEVER get invloved with the OSCE. These are people that uses the name of JWs for their own ends." Yeah right, if you use the name of the Society or one of their affiliates for you own ends, they will sue the pants off you... Ignorance is bliss. One can also to refer to their stance on pedophilia.
But heed above warnings and tread carefully. For example, after my mother's queries, she is not treated kindly. Some will not even greet her. That should tell you something. Those whose eyes are opened are viewed as a lost cause and written off.
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My JW mom is now willing to "listen" to our side...Need advice pls
by 2pink inmy husband and i (both born in jws with extended family all "in" except for one of my sisters who left when we did) left the church 5 years ago.
we did not fade, we just didn't believe it anymore, told our families so and left.
obviously, big drama in our family after this, messy feelings, etc.
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Vidqun
A huge shock for any longtime Witness is their involvement with the UN and OSCE (see threads on those topics). Last week my mother asked a circuit overseer's wife about the OSCE, so she replied: "The Society will NEVER become involved with the OSCE. Other people are using the name of Jehovah's Witnesses for their own ends." Yeah, sure, if you use the Society's names or emblems for you own ends they will sue the pants off you... Ignorance is bliss! On top of that, one could mention their stance on pedophilia. But note above warnings, all this can come as a big shock to an elderly Witness, so tread carefully.
P.S. After my mother mentioned above topics, she is treated as a leper. Some will not greet her (she is a Witness in good standing).
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Jack The Ripper Unmasked?
by metatron inhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2746321/jack-ripper-unmasked-how-amateur-sleuth-used-dna-breakthrough-identify-britains-notorious-criminal-126-years-string-terrible-murders.html.
to be accepted as fact, these claims will have to be replicated.
metatron.
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Vidqun
Don't you worry, if there's holes in their story, they will be shot down by their peers, people that are eminently qualified for the job. Oh yes, let's not be gullible, but let's not be paranoid either.
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Jack The Ripper Unmasked?
by metatron inhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2746321/jack-ripper-unmasked-how-amateur-sleuth-used-dna-breakthrough-identify-britains-notorious-criminal-126-years-string-terrible-murders.html.
to be accepted as fact, these claims will have to be replicated.
metatron.
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Vidqun
And do you really think that Drs. David Miller and Jari Louhelainen will put their professional reputations at risk so that Mr. Edwards can sell his book? Really!