No, Viv, what I mean is, I understand prophecy to mean "a prediction of something to come" (Webster). However, you are asking for names, events, and places. I think you are confusing the evidence of Biblical prophecy and evidence given in a Court of Law. You want to apply scientific method to history. Good luck with that, observing something that happened 2000 years ago, and accumulating first-hand knowledge. For this you need a time machine, and we're not there yet. Can you prove that all prophecies were given after the fact? We discussed Daniel as a case in point. Even with a late date Daniel, certain future predictions were made that did in fact come true. Even with Dan. 9 with its names, events, and places, you can't see it, because you don't want to see it. That's what I mean when I say, we can agree not to agree.
Posts by Vidqun
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250Biblical Prohecies That Came True?
by Viviane inrecently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.
i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.
i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.
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250
Biblical Prohecies That Came True?
by Viviane inrecently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.
i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.
i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.
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Vidqun
Bart, first the good news. It’s possible with a minor change in one of the letters. This is the footnote in NET: tc The Hebrew text has ('ir haheres, "City of Destruction"; cf. NASB, NIV) but this does not fit the positive emphasis of vv. Is. 19:18-22. The Qumran scroll 1QIsa a and some medieval Hebrew MSS read ('ir hakheres, "City of the Sun," i.e., Heliopolis). This reading also finds support from Symmachus' Greek version, the Targum, and the Vulgate. See HALOT 257 s.v. and HALOT 355 s.v. II.
I personally believe the MT to be reliable in this instance, after comparing it with Is. 1:26. Zion will be called “city of righteousness,” whereas one of the cities in Egypt would be called “city of destruction,” but after being rebuilt (spiritually restructered) “city of righteousness” (according to the reading of LXX) in line with Jer. 1:10.
Now the bad news. The fifteen volume TDOT are not available online or as part of software programs (Logos, BibleWorks, Accordance). It can be bought from Amazon in printed form, or accessed at a University (Theological) Library.
Viviane, we can only agree to disagree. Perhaps what Bart means, can he present a historical prophecy, one that came true in the time that it was written, as predictive prophecy?
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250
Biblical Prohecies That Came True?
by Viviane inrecently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.
i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.
i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.
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Vidqun
Bart, it's my own interpretation from information gleaned from Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament. I tried to make sense of Is. 19 within the context of the book of Isaiah and the other prophetic books (cf. Is. 9:6, 7; 11:1-5, 10, etc.).
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250
Biblical Prohecies That Came True?
by Viviane inrecently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.
i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.
i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.
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Vidqun
This is where prophetic interpretation comes in. It’s great fun, you should try it:
This is an indication of what would happen during the Messiah’s reign. Even Canaanite nations would be enjoying God’s approval (cf. Is. 19:18 ). There will not be a curse anymore on the inabitants of the land (Zach 14:21b). These would grab at the chance to learn the “pure language, in order for them all to call upon God, in order to serve him shoulder to shoulder” (cf. Zeph. 3:9 ). In the LXX “The City of Tearing Down” is called polis asedek, “City of Righteousness ”. This is a figurative city, in a spiritual sense to be torn down completely, then rebuilt at the behest of the Lord of armies ( Jer. 1:10 ; 2 Cor. 10:4 , 5 ; cf. Amos 9:11 , 12 ).
Some of Israel ’s neigbhours, like Assyria , had been heavily militaristic. Other nations had been more liberal, like Egypt —at one time “the king of the south” in Daniel’s prophecy ( Dan. 11:5 , 8 ). Millions of individuals from the militaristic nations and the more liberal nations would be taking up the way of true worship. Thus, people from all nations would be united. There would be no nationalistic divisions among them. They would love one another, and it would be said that ‘Assyria comes into Egypt and Egypt into Assyria .’ It would be as if there were a highway from one to the other.— 1 Pet. 2:17 . Coming out of the nations—foreshadowed by Egypt and Assyria—individuals would stream to God’s house of worship and invite others to join them ( Is. 2:2-4 ).
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250
Biblical Prohecies That Came True?
by Viviane inrecently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.
i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.
i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.
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Vidqun
No, Jwfacts, I think you're missing the point. I refer you to the following article (repetition for emphasis). In connection with Egypt of Is. 19:1-15, Ringgren of TDOT, vol. VIII, p. 529, had the following to say:
The series of statements in Is. 19:1-15 is more problematical, and its authenticity is generally disputed based on stylistic considerations. A prediction is made for the dissolution of national order, the collapse of economic life, and the confusion of Egypt’s rulers. “A fierce king will rule over them” (v. 4: historical allusion or a prediction for the future?). Isaiah’s usual warning against reliance on Egyptian aid is absent. These assertians are followed by a series of statements introduced by bayyôm hahû’ [an eschatological marker] which are doubtlessly secondary….
As seen, a historical fit for Is. 19 was missing. Such a period in Egyptian history cannot be identified. However, above statements would make perfect sense as a prediction for the future, as of now.
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250
Biblical Prohecies That Came True?
by Viviane inrecently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.
i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.
i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.
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Vidqun
Read Is. 19:2 Civil war. 9, 10, 15 Economic problems. 11 Foolish leaders. Sums up with what is going on in Egypt and the world.
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250
Biblical Prohecies That Came True?
by Viviane inrecently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.
i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.
i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.
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Vidqun
No, it's a partially fulfilled prophecy. You'll have to wait for the full package. It's even more interesting if you apply the clue of Rev. 11:8 where Egypt is used as an eponym for the world. So, then the prophecy has an even wider application.
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250
Biblical Prohecies That Came True?
by Viviane inrecently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.
i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.
i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.
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Vidqun
Let's say the prophecy has had a partial fulfillment. According to above prophecies, there's some interesting developments to look forward to. Time will tell.
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250
Biblical Prohecies That Came True?
by Viviane inrecently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.
i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.
i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.
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Vidqun
Here’s two prophecies of Isaiah that scholars had a problem with, especially Isaiah 19. If these did not come to pass in the past, they have now.
Syria, the country where the original King of the North was based, would be plunged into a vicious civil war during the latter part of the days. In Is. 17:1 we read of God’s pronouncement against Damascus : “Look! Damascus removed from being a city, and she has become a heap, a decaying ruin.” To me this is a reminder that Biblical prophecies should be taken seriously.
In connection with Egypt of Is. 19:1-15, Ringgren of TDOT, vol. VIII, p. 529, had the following to say:
The series of statements in Is. 19:1-15 is more problematical, and its authenticity is generally disputed based on stylistic considerations. A prediction is made for the dissolution of national order, the collapse of economic life, and the confusion of Egypt’s rulers. “A fierce king will rule over them” (v. 4: historical allusion or a prediction for the future?). Isaiah’s usual warning against reliance on Egyptian aid is absent. These assertians are followed by a series of statements introduced by bayyôm hahû’ [an eschatological marker] which are doubtlessly secondary….
As seen, a historical fit for Is. 19 would cause both exegete and interpreter untold problems. Such a period in Egyptian history cannot be identified. However, above statements would make perfect sense as a prediction for the future, as of now.
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26
Nebuchadnezzar's Dream--The Death of His Dynasty
by Tiresias infollowing my departure from the jehovah's witnesses, i have done my own research using preterism as a primary lens.
i would like to share my understanding of daniel chapter 2:.
31 "you looked, o king, and there before you stood a large statuean enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance.
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Vidqun
Interesting interpretation Teresias, but going against the writer's own exposition. He would have said "king," but instead he mentions "kingdom" (see all versions and translations). I view the prophecy of Daniel as a unit, thus preferring the traditional explanation of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome, especially in the light of the four beasts of Dan. 7:
38b Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.
39 "After you, another kingdom will arise, inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth.
40 Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron--for iron breaks and smashes everything--and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others.
41 Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay.
42 As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle.
43 And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay.
(Dan 2:38-43 TNIV)
Coming back to the date of authorship, it seems to be moving back in time, according to the latest research. Three examples come to mind:
1) It is certainly possible that Daniel is the author of the book (Ant. 10:267), which would put the date of the book somewhere in the latter half of the sixth century B.C. [Footnote 1: On purely linguistic grounds, the similarity of the book’s Aramaic with that of Egyptian Aramaic texts from the fifth century B.C. makes a date in the latter part of the sixth century B.C. at least remotely possible.][1]
2) John J. Collins, a staunch defender of a late date Daniel, makes an unusual concession. While acknowledging that a “precise dating on linguistic grounds is not possible,” he concludes that the Aramaic of Daniel is later than that of the Samaria papyri (Wadi Daliyeh, fourth century BCE) but earlier than that of the Genesis Apocryphon (1Q20).[2]
3) The form of the prophecies of Dan. 8:23-25 and 11 is best explained if they originated in the Babylonian Dispersion and the author was well acquainted with the Babylonian omen literature, someone skilled in the language and letters of the Chaldeans, as the account in Dan. 1 indicates.[3]
[1] Michael B. Shepherd, Daniel in the Context of the Hebrew Bible (Studies in Biblical Literature, vol. 123), Peter Lang Publishing, New York 2009, pp. 65, 66.
[2] John J. Collins, A Commentary on the Book of Daniel, Hermeneia-series, pp. 16 [footnote 156], 17, and R. J. Korner, “The “Exilic” Prophecy of Daniel 7: Does It Reflect Late Pre-Maccabean or Early Hellenistic Historiography?” in Prophets, Prophecy, and Ancient Israelite Historiography [ed. M. J. Boda and L. M. Wray Beal; Leiden: Brill, 2013], p. 348.
[3] E. C. Lucas, “Daniel: Resolving the Enigma,” Vetus Testamentum, Vol. 50, Fasc. 1 (Jan., 2000), pp. 72-76.