Vidqun

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Posts by Vidqun

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  71

  Confusing Opinions with Facts

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a discussion about the best flavour of ice cream everybody's opinion is equally valid.. in a discussion about the shape of the earth or the origin of species everybody's opinion is equally irrelevant.

  only objective facts and evidence matter.. confusing these two categories is a common feature of conversations in this forum.

  people deserve respect, errors do not..

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  Vidqun

  Glad to be of service. Reminds me of something I read in a public bathroom: "We aim to please. Please steady your aim."
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  71

  Confusing Opinions with Facts

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a discussion about the best flavour of ice cream everybody's opinion is equally valid.. in a discussion about the shape of the earth or the origin of species everybody's opinion is equally irrelevant.

  only objective facts and evidence matter.. confusing these two categories is a common feature of conversations in this forum.

  people deserve respect, errors do not..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vidqun

  Abiogenesis aside, I struggle with the concept: "From fish to man." Cognitive dissonance in a big way. It is f*#%ing impossible.
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  71

  Confusing Opinions with Facts

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a discussion about the best flavour of ice cream everybody's opinion is equally valid.. in a discussion about the shape of the earth or the origin of species everybody's opinion is equally irrelevant.

  only objective facts and evidence matter.. confusing these two categories is a common feature of conversations in this forum.

  people deserve respect, errors do not..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vidqun

  There is a measure of cognitive dissonance at work in all those that believe in evolution, being the origin of life. I believe that if there is a god, and if he is fair and just, he will clear things up in his own time. Allow me to use the hypothetical case of prophecy, specifically Rev. 11:3-12. The JW interpretation of this prophecy is that it happened during the Great War (1914-1918). This is indeed a long shot. Even if one interprets the vision as purely symbolic, one will have a hard time foisting above interpretation on the vision. But let us say, we interpret the vision in a more literal sense:

  3 And I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days dressed in sackcloth.

  4 These are [symbolized by] the two olive trees and the two lampstands and are standing before the Lord of the earth.

  5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire issues forth from their mouths and devours their enemies; and if anyone should want to harm them, in this manner he must be killed.

  6 These have the authority to shut up heaven that no rain should fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have authority over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every sort of plague as often as they wish.

  7 And when they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will make war with them and conquer them and kill them.

  8 And their corpses will be on the broad way of the great city which is in a spiritual sense called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was also impaled.

  9 And those of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their corpses for three and a half days, and they do not let their corpses be laid in a tomb.

  10 And those dwelling on the earth rejoice over them and enjoy themselves, and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those dwelling on the earth.

  11 And after the three and a half days spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet, and great fear fell upon those beholding them.

  12 And they heard a loud voice out of heaven say to them, Come on up here. And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies beheld them (Rev. 11:3-12 NWT).

  If these two prophets do make their appearance on the world scene, effecting miracles, how many will believe that they are from God? Are they using delusion or special effects or are they the real thing? Even Witnesses will find the above hard to fathom, because their GB says otherwise. I believe this prophecy is to occur in the near future. If I am wrong, the joke’s on me. If I am right, then the joke’s on all skeptics out there. Interestingly, the Chapter ends off:

  18 But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, and to give [their] reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth (Rev. 11:18 NWT).
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  71

  Confusing Opinions with Facts

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a discussion about the best flavour of ice cream everybody's opinion is equally valid.. in a discussion about the shape of the earth or the origin of species everybody's opinion is equally irrelevant.

  only objective facts and evidence matter.. confusing these two categories is a common feature of conversations in this forum.

  people deserve respect, errors do not..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vidqun

  Simon: The sum total of facts: 1) Archaeology; 2) History; 3) Natural order of things; 4) Linguistics; 5) Bible Prophecy, etc. Perhaps I consider facts that a lot of people will choose to ignore. But if I put all of these together, then there are certain inevitable conclusions that I have to make. A favorite saying of mine: Where there is smoke, there is fire.

  Konceptual99, Ray Franz suggested that it might not have been a worldwide flood, but a regional flood. He bases his conclusion on the Hebrew word "earth" which could mean "land." That would cancel out all of the Australian animal problems.
  

  Hebrew earth: ’êrêts
  

  —1. ground, earth.

  —2. piece of ground.

  —3. territory, country.

  —4. the whole of the land, the earth (HALOT).
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  47

  Evolution is a Fact #37 - Testicles

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  take a look at the back of your tv/entertainment centre.

  a mass of power and signal cables connect the various pieces of equipment in very specific ways.

  imagine you wanted to switch the locations of your satellite receiver and your dvd player.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Vidqun

  LoveUniHateExams, yes I love nature and all critters in it. Some of them I love less, e.g., viruses, tapeworms, mosquitoes, etc. But all of them, great and small, fascinates me no end. Think of the Zika virus and the mosquito, a fascinating development and an open field for research. Is the Zika virus the culprit? Did the virus mutate spontaneously or with the help of pesticides? Wish I was younger that I could research it. According to the experts, originally the mosquito lived off sap of trees. But then he migrated from there and noticed sacks of blood walking around on the ground. Again a case of adaptation, not evolution.

  Notsurewheretogo, for one, science is moving very fast. Today we have junk DNA, tomorrow we find out what it's for. Saw a documentary on meter long leeches in American rivers. Would not want to encounter one of those while swimming. Same with a shark. But that doesn't make them less fascinating.

  Diogenesister, perhaps you've missed this part: “Human-designed devices, such as radios and computers, do not need to function until their assembly is complete. By contrast, living organisms must function to a high degree in order to thrive during every developmental stage from a single-cell zygote to adult. The embryo as a whole must be a fully functioning system in its specific environment during every second of its entire development. For this reason, adult anatomy can be understood only in the light of development.” One would not be able to unplug, shorten or alter a nerve, artery or vein in the process of development. The zygote and later the embryo needs all of this to function all the time for it to continue living.

  Liberator, yes I find the comparison with the development of a car and submarine interesting. All those things need to be designed and manufactured by someone. But when it comes to living beings (much more complicated in design and manufacture) we prefer to ascribe it to coincidence or Mother Nature. Again it comes down to the template of life, i.e., DNA. No matter who you are, if you start manufacturing you need a basic template. From this template you will be able to build or subtract or change. Does this not make sense?
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  71

  Confusing Opinions with Facts

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a discussion about the best flavour of ice cream everybody's opinion is equally valid.. in a discussion about the shape of the earth or the origin of species everybody's opinion is equally irrelevant.

  only objective facts and evidence matter.. confusing these two categories is a common feature of conversations in this forum.

  people deserve respect, errors do not..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vidqun

  Cofty, does it not have a lot to do with the interpretation of the facts? You believe in evolution because that is how you interpret the facts. I believe in creation, because that is how I interpret the facts.
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  47

  Evolution is a Fact #37 - Testicles

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  take a look at the back of your tv/entertainment centre.

  a mass of power and signal cables connect the various pieces of equipment in very specific ways.

  imagine you wanted to switch the locations of your satellite receiver and your dvd player.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vidqun

  Yes, God did that for a reason that you will soon find out. Revision: template, embryology. The giraffe is a beautiful animal. I only have praise for it and its designer.
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  47

  Evolution is a Fact #37 - Testicles

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  take a look at the back of your tv/entertainment centre.

  a mass of power and signal cables connect the various pieces of equipment in very specific ways.

  imagine you wanted to switch the locations of your satellite receiver and your dvd player.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vidqun

  If I mention the contents of articles and text books and don't quote the source, I am in the dogbox. If I do give the source of the information, I am also in the dogbox. I am happy to be in the dogbox, but I will nevertheless say my say, whether you like it or not. Let’s just make sure we practice what we preach. Don’t you know, What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

  Benefits of the current RLN setup (the left recurrent laryngeal nerve is not poorly designed, but rather is clear evidence of intelligent design):

  Much evidence exists that the present design results from developmental constraints.

  There are indications that this design serves to fine-tune laryngeal functions.

  The nerve serves to innervate other organs after it branches from the vagus on its way to the larynx.

  The design provides backup innervation to the larynx in case another nerve is damaged.

  No evidence exists that the design causes any disadvantage.1

  
  

  Cofty, see what I wrote to Cantleave. I don’t want to keep on repeating myself.

  But to add to that, some of us prefer to look at the big picture. If one asserts that the RLN is a poor design you assume that a better design exists, a claim that cannot be asserted unless an alternative embryonic design from fertilized ovum to fetus - including all the incalculable molecular gradients, triggers, cascades, and anatomical twists and tucks - can be proposed that documents an improved design. After this had been accomplished, such a person can criticize the existing design to his heart’s content. Until then, shut up or ship out.

  1. Bergman, J. 2010. Recurrent Laryngeal Nerve Is Not Evidence of Poor Design. Acts & Facts. 39 (8): 12-14.

  Dr. Bergman is an Adjunct Associate Professor at the University of Toledo Medical School in Ohio.
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  47

  Evolution is a Fact #37 - Testicles

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  take a look at the back of your tv/entertainment centre.

  a mass of power and signal cables connect the various pieces of equipment in very specific ways.

  imagine you wanted to switch the locations of your satellite receiver and your dvd player.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vidqun

  No, Cantleave, you are missing the point and clouding the issue.

  Did you miss this point: Human-designed devices, such as radios and computers, do not need to function until their assembly is complete. By contrast, living organisms must function to a high degree in order to thrive during every developmental stage from a single-cell zygote to adult. The embryo as a whole must be a fully functioning system in its specific environment during every second of its entire development.

  I, personally, ascribe the position of the laryngeal nerve to the development of the fetus, "necessary consequences of developmental dynamics," and not because of bad design. Blechschmidt compares it to the course of a river, which "cannot be explained on the basis of a knowledge of its sources, its tributaries, or the specific locations of the harbors at its mouth. It is only the total topographical circumstances that determine the river's course." This has been confirmed by dissection of human cadavers. The fact that Blechschmidt believes in the theory of evolution is not important. Whatever the case, he will not be using the position of the laryngeal nerve in the human body as a proof of this theory, I can assure you.
  

  The article you mention actually discusses the benefits of this arrangement, so it's not bad design at all. Actually, it's brilliant.
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  47

  Evolution is a Fact #37 - Testicles

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  take a look at the back of your tv/entertainment centre.

  a mass of power and signal cables connect the various pieces of equipment in very specific ways.

  imagine you wanted to switch the locations of your satellite receiver and your dvd player.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vidqun

  Cofty, there’s always two sides to a story. Here’s another variation on the theme. Anyway, this is how I see it:

  The most logical reason is that the RLN design is due to developmental constraints. Eminent embryologist Professor Erich Blechschmidt wrote that the recurrent laryngeal nerve's seemingly poor design in adults is due to the "necessary consequences of developmental dynamics," not historical carryovers from evolution. 1

  Human-designed devices, such as radios and computers, do not need to function until their assembly is complete. By contrast, living organisms must function to a high degree in order to thrive during every developmental stage from a single-cell zygote to adult. The embryo as a whole must be a fully functioning system in its specific environment during every second of its entire development. For this reason, adult anatomy can be understood only in the light of development. An analogy Blechschmidt uses to help elucidate this fact is the course of a river, which "cannot be explained on the basis of a knowledge of its sources, its tributaries, or the specific locations of the harbors at its mouth. It is only the total topographical circumstances that determine the river's course." 2

  Due to variations in the topographical landscape of the mammalian body, the "course of the inferior [meaning lower] laryngeal nerve is highly variant" and minor anatomic differences are common. 3 Dissections of human cadavers found that the paths of the right and left recurrent laryngeal nerves were often somewhat different from that shown in the standard literature, illustrating Blechschmidt's analogy. 4

  1. Blechschmidt, E. 2004. The Ontogenetic Basis of Human Anatomy: A Biodynamic Approach to Development from Conception to Birth. B. Freeman, transl. New York: North Atlantic Books, 188.
  2. Ibid, 108.
  3. Sturniolo, G. et al. 1999. The Recurrent Laryngeal Nerve Related to Thyroid Surgery. The American Journal of Surgery. 177: 487-488.
  4. Steinberg, J. L., G. J. Khane, C. M. C. Fernanades and J. P. Nel. 1986. Anatomy of the recurrent laryngeal nerve: A redescription. The Journal of Laryngology and Otology. 100: 919.