JRK, I know, hard to reach sometimes. Why don't you ask somebody to scratch it for you?
Cofty, seriously, spontaneous generation? Come on....
Posts by Vidqun
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154I believe in Evolution and that God created life
by Crabby inanyone else also hold this view or understand it at least, or do you feel the need to argue that both can in no way coexist?.
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154
I believe in Evolution and that God created life
by Crabby inanyone else also hold this view or understand it at least, or do you feel the need to argue that both can in no way coexist?.
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Vidqun
You know Cofty, there’s a huge irony in all of this. One day you’re going to tell me: “Yes, Prof. So-and-so and Dr. So-and-so have have discovered the recipe for life. They have cobbled together the necessary ingredients and created life.” An yes, you can guess what my reaction would be: “That’s wonderful. So, Prof. So-and-so and Dr. So-and-so have at last succeeded in creating life in the lab. See, you need a creator to create life.” I know, I know, circular reasoning at its best. But don’t worry, time will tell. Of that I am certain. Hopefully these breakthroughs will come in our lifetime so that you can throw down the gauntlet yet again, and in my case (as a minority), running the gauntlet.
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154
I believe in Evolution and that God created life
by Crabby inanyone else also hold this view or understand it at least, or do you feel the need to argue that both can in no way coexist?.
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Vidqun
Cofty, for one, hydrothemal vents are very inhospitable places, perhaps some of the most inhospitable places on earth. I don't see anything developing from there. But I'll humor you. Lets say life did develop from these hydrothermal vents. Then we will be able to solve this enigma quite easily. A hydrothermal vent with all its chemical components (devoid of living organisms) could then be replicated in a laboratory environment.
But I guarantee a similar result as with the "primordial soup" experiments. After manipulating their soupy concoction in all kinds of ways, they would send lightning bolts through it. However, it remained dead. They were successful in synthesizing interesting chemicals, including aminoacids, but that is still a long way from living cells.
So what you are actually saying: With the heat energy from the hydrothermal vents, rocks, and seawater, amino acids and nucleotides would self-assemble. These would organize themselves into even more ordered molecules such as enzymes and proteins. From these the evolution process would build the first cells, and eventually redwoods and roses, honeybees and apple trees, hyenas and humans. Nope, I cannot go along with such a theory, even if you decorate it with rosy prose or complicated scientific jargon. As Pink Floyd said: "The pie in the sky is just too high."
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154
I believe in Evolution and that God created life
by Crabby inanyone else also hold this view or understand it at least, or do you feel the need to argue that both can in no way coexist?.
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Vidqun
Vidqun: So let me get this straight. DNA/RNA is not an information system and DNA doesn't qualify as code.
Viv: Right.So, DNA/RNA complex is not an information system. DNA code does not qualify as “information.” Is that right? Follow with me:
Ribonucleic acid, or RNA is one of the three major biological macromolecules that are essential for all known forms of life (along with DNA and proteins). A central tenet of molecular biology states that the flow of genetic information in a cell is from DNA through RNA to proteins: “DNA makes RNA makes protein”. Proteins are the workhorses of the cell; they play leading roles in the cell as enzymes, as structural components, and in cell signaling, to name just a few. DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid) is considered the “blueprint” of the cell; it carries all of the genetic information required for the cell to grow, to take in nutrients, and to propagate. RNA–in this role–is the “DNA photocopy” of the cell. When the cell needs to produce a certain protein, it activates the protein’s gene–the portion of DNA that codes for that protein–and produces multiple copies of that piece of DNA in the form of messenger RNA, or mRNA. The multiple copies of mRNA are then used to translate the genetic code into protein through the action of the cell’s protein manufacturing machinery, the ribosomes. Thus, RNA expands the quantity of a given protein that can be made at one time from one given gene, and it provides an important control point for regulating when and how much protein gets made. For many years RNA was believed to have only three major roles in the cell–as a DNA photocopy (mRNA), as a coupler between the genetic code and the protein building blocks (tRNA), and as a structural component of ribosomes (rRNA). In recent years, however, we have begun to realize that the roles adopted by RNA are much broader and much more interesting. We now know that RNA can also act as enzymes (called ribozomes) to speed chemical reactions. In a number of clinically important viruses RNA, rather than DNA, carries the viral genetic information. RNA also plays an important role in regulating cellular processes–from cell division, differentiation and growth to cell aging and death. Defects in certain RNAs or the regulation of RNAs have been implicated in a number of important human diseases, including heart disease, some cancers, stroke and many others (cursive script added).
The RNA Society
9650 Rockville
Pike, Bethesda, MD20814
(301) 634-7166
From the above I discern some serious information flows back and forth. So it's not only one way traffic, the information flows both ways. Think of it as a factory. The sender of the information, the CEO, is the DNA, right? Next, we have the transcription process with the m-RNA, the workhorse. The first recipient benefitting from this process would be the cell because of the manufacture of structural proteins, amongst other things. The second recipient, benefitting from the information, would be the organism that are kept alive by these processes. To sum up: Genetic information is locked up in the nucleus. This is unlocked and transcribed by RNA, which in turn is responsible for the manufacture of proteins for a specific purpose (e.g., hormones). These are passed from the cell to the organism. If something goes wrong with these processes, the organism dies. The factory goes out of business.
Vidqun: It developed spontaneously, by itself, from basic elements in solid and liquid form.
Viv: Wrong.Would you care to elaborate. How do you think DNA developed? By accident? Perhaps a better answer would be, I don´t know.
Viv, "it" is a mystery. I would love to know what "it" is, then I might also be able to understand the concept of evolution. No, jokes aside, “it” is referring to DNA. I thought that was obvious. Anyway, according to Cofty it's electrons driving the production and function of DNA and RNA. I call those "super intelligent" electrons. What would you call them?
Orphan Crow, what happened here was a huge experiment. A lot of life forms have come and gone. All in preparation for the crown of creation, man, which was a massive failure in the end. The human race cannot even work out their origin. They came up with the theory of evolution to avoid taking responsibility for their actions. I would venture a guess that God would have been very disappointed. That's why he said the following:
"The nations were enraged, but your wrath has come, and the time has come for the dead to be judged, and the time has come to give to your servants, the prophets, their reward, as well as to the saints and to those who revere your name, both small and great, and the time has come to destroy those who destroy the earth." (Rev. 11:18 NET)
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154
I believe in Evolution and that God created life
by Crabby inanyone else also hold this view or understand it at least, or do you feel the need to argue that both can in no way coexist?.
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Vidqun
So let me get this straight. DNA/RNA is not an information system and DNA doesn't qualify as code. It developed spontaneously, by itself, from basic elements in solid and liquid form. It created a system so intricate and complicated, we are still trying to figure out how it works. There is mention of the application of algorithms and a complicated genomic error correction system in the transcription process.
One-celled organisms transformed into multi-celled organisms. From multi-celled organisms these would magically turn into complicated life forms and divide into male and female sexes. Somewhere along the line these organisms migrated from the sea onto land. Lo and behold! when the going got tough, some of them migrated back into the sea. Mother Nature does the most extraordinary things. Yes, I know a period of 450 million years is a long time and lots of things can happen during that time. That's why evolutionism qualifies as a religion. One must have a lot of faith to believe in all of that.
Talking of Mars, I see evolutionary scientists are putting their money on it. They predict that life would be able to exist in subterranean vaults and caves. So, if they find life there, they would be able to demonstrate how life on earth started. Well, I will also make a prediction. They will not find life on Mars or anywhere else in the solar system (except earth) because life, in any form, cannot be kick started by itself, not in a million years.
Cofty: There is no recipient in DNA. It's all just electrons doing their thing.
In DNA, information is just a metaphor.Cofty, I believe you are wrong. "It's all just electrons doing their thing." Intelligent electrons! I have never heard of such codswallop in my whole life. And it is noted that Viv is quite happy with that. Thanks for your input Viv. And you two laugh at those putting faith in religion? Even the beliefs of JWs are tame in comparison to what you believe.
Anyway, DNA qualifies as an information system, whether you like it or not. The sender of this information system is God, and the recipients are all the life forms on earth, and I am grateful for his magnanimous generosity.
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154
I believe in Evolution and that God created life
by Crabby inanyone else also hold this view or understand it at least, or do you feel the need to argue that both can in no way coexist?.
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Vidqun
Caedes, do not confuse adaptation with evolution. Adaptation is necessary for survival. But in most cases it would pre-programmed. Some view spontaneous mutations as the cause. As mentioned, spontaneous mutations are very seldom beneficial. They kill rather than improve. Some Pseudomonas bacteria digest oil, so I am not surprised that some bacteria might lunch on nylon.
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154
I believe in Evolution and that God created life
by Crabby inanyone else also hold this view or understand it at least, or do you feel the need to argue that both can in no way coexist?.
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Vidqun
No Half banana, it's much simpler that that. Information science and technology are relatively new, I will grant you that. But let me explain "information" to you. I will use three examples: 1) Radio announcer (with information) > radio > listener. 2) Writer (with information) > book > library > reader. 2) Programmer (with information) > computer program > DVD or CD. So, what is information? Is it the radio, or book, or DVD? No, these are mere receptacles of information. The actual information is massless, intangible and an abstract construct of a mind. In each case, you have a sender (originator) of information and you have a receiver (or recipient) of information. Now the DNA/RNA system in the nucleus of a cell is an information system. It supplies information to construct an organism, plant or animal. The information over the radio, in the book and on the DVD had to be placed there by an intelligent mind. However, as was previously explained, the DNA/RNA information system is much more complex than the information in above examples. Conclusion: The laws of information, similar to above examples, demand an intelligent creator for DNA/RNA.
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154
I believe in Evolution and that God created life
by Crabby inanyone else also hold this view or understand it at least, or do you feel the need to argue that both can in no way coexist?.
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Vidqun
Ah, Viv's back. Please Viv, if you have the time, go through the video, and let me know if you see logical flaws in the presentation, and what they are. There's no rush, so take your time. Thanks in anticipation.
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154
I believe in Evolution and that God created life
by Crabby inanyone else also hold this view or understand it at least, or do you feel the need to argue that both can in no way coexist?.
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Vidqun
In continuation of what I said before: A DNA machine is a molecular machine constructed from DNA. Research into DNA machines was pioneered in the late 1980s by Nadrian Seeman and co-workers from New York University. DNA is used because of the numerous biological tools already found in nature that can affect DNA, and the immense knowledge of how DNA works previously researched by biochemists.
DNA machines can be logically designed since DNA assembly of the double helix is based on strict rules of base pairing that allow portions of the strand to be predictably connected based on their sequence. This 'selective stickiness' is a key advantage in the construction of DNA machines (Wiki).
Man-made DNA sequencer: Man is also working on a DNA sequencer, still imperfect, but they are getting there.
Because of limitations in DNA sequencer technology these reads are short compared to the length of a genome therefore the reads must be assembled into longer contigs. The data may also contain errors, caused by limitations in the DNA sequencing technique or by errors during PCR amplification. DNA sequencer manufacturers use a number of different methods to detect which DNA bases are present. The specific protocols applied in different sequencing platforms have an impact in the final data that is generated. Therefore, comparing data quality and cost across different technologies can be a daunting task. Each manufacturer provides their own ways to inform sequencing errors and scores. However, errors and scores between different platforms cannot always be compared directly. Since these systems rely on different DNA sequencing approaches, choosing the best DNA sequencer and method will typically depend on the experiment objectives and available budget (Wiki).
Half banana, as you might have noticed, the chain of evidence, involving the laws of information and DNA, disproves the "scientific theorum" of evolution. An advanced information system, e.g., DNA, cannot spontaneously generate and improve on itself all the time. Impossible. What you are is in your DNA? Spontaneous mutations in your DNA are likely to kill you rather than improve you. So has evolution stood the test of time? Not really. What the alternative to evolution is, you'll have to decide for yourself.
Take note: Evolution is a religion built on faith. E.g., the leading evolutionist of the 20th century is generally considered to be Sir Julian Huxley, primary architect of modern neo-Darwinism. Huxley called evolution a "religion without revelation." I personally believe evolution is the most worthless religion of them all. It is based on a lie and teaches you nothing.
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154
I believe in Evolution and that God created life
by Crabby inanyone else also hold this view or understand it at least, or do you feel the need to argue that both can in no way coexist?.
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Vidqun
It is NOTHING like a blueprint. That is one of the worse metaphors for DNA you could think of.
Really? If you design a car or a house, you need blueprints or architectual drawings. If you design an organism, what do you need? In DNA you do not only have the blueprint, but you have the mechanism to proceed and build it. Yes, you're right, DNA is much more than a blueprint. It incorporates the blueprint and proceeds to manufacture what it necessary for the organism to survive and replicate. It's the blueprint with the factory, tools and workers, all in one. It's a f@$#ing miracle!