Posts by Vidqun

65

The currently missing 'Titan' submarine. What do you think?

by SydBarrett in

jw
friends

any opinions are just speculation, but my guess, being morbid, is that there was not a hull breach and implosion (although that would have been the most merciful fate for them), but instead the amateur level of building this thing meant that it lost power and communication and got itself tangled in the titanic's wreckage or is sitting on the actual seabed with no way to release ballast to resurface.

terrifying.

what's your gut feeling?

Vidqun

Hope this isn't true.

23

Link between relationships and health/happiness

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

even though i’m agnostic so will not commit to either intelligent design or chance, i love being part of the congregation for the close personal relationships.. there is such a great atmosphere inside the congregation it really is like a family and you don’t get this anywhere else.. a real friend is someone you can rely on when you are in need.

if things go wrong for you and you are going through a hard time you know real friends will be there for you.

as long as you didn’t bring it on yourself by going against gods law then you have to prove you are repentant first of course.. there is a lot of research now saying that good friends is essential for healthy and happiness.

Vidqun

The other day I stumbled on the concept of EQ in contrast to IQ. Wish I found this out earlier. EQ plays an important role in maintaining good health and stable relationships. Def. EQ or emotional intelligence is the ability to understand, use and manage your own emotions in a positive way to relieve stress, communicate effectively, empathize with others, overcome challenges and defuse conflict. So relationships and health/happiness depend a lot on one's behaviour and actions.

5

Do you agree with this?

by vienne in

new post to the history blog: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2023/05/typical-nonsense.html.

i agree that in the russell and rutherford eras there was little actual scriptural refutation.

fine!

Vidqun

Perhaps if there are facts involved, e.g., verified in court it, it would be relevant. I'm thinking of Russel's marital difficulties, which is an indication of the role of women at the time and his philosophy in life. At one time he said he was like a butterfly, not being able to develop close human connections, etc. Certainly that would have influenced his scriptural interpretation. I agree, unverified ad hominem attacks on a person's character would not contribute anything.

29

Revelation book

by Gorb in

jw
friends

do you remember the jw.org book of revelation and how many times we had to study it?

in retrospect, all those hours turned out to be for nothing, the explanation of the prophecies is now completely outdated..

Vidqun

Fred Franz tried to link every occurrence of Revelation to the history of the Witnesses. Somewhere along the way he lost the plot completely. Think of the evangelizers and literature as being part of the plagues.

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Vidqun

Jorden, here's some basics that helped me piece things together:

Temple sanctuary = God's people (Rev. 11:1; cf. 1 Cor. 3:16, 17; 2 Cor. 6:16; Eph. 2:21, 22; 1 Peter 2:4-8).

Courtyard of temple = Includes dining rooms of priests (Rev. 11:2; cf. Ezek. 42:1).

Leadership of God’s people (Matt. 19:28; 1 Pet. 2:9).

Israel of God = God’s new nation (Gal. 6:15, 16).

Jerusalem = Leadership of God's people as theocracy (temple situated on Mount Moriah, king’s residence on Mount Zion)

Holy city = Jerusalem with temple: God’s people with their leaders (Rev. 11:2)

Great city = world alienated from God (Rev. 11:8; cf. 16:19)

42 months = second half of great tribulation (time, times and half a time = 1260 days = 3 1/2 years)

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Vidqun

Jorden, you might be on to something. A global emergency, e.g., natural catastrophes, would give the UN vast powers. They are also pushing for a Biomedical Security State with WHO pressuring the governments, removing individual rights, of course. If you are on Twitter, follow this tweet.

https://twitter.com/LibertyMutual8/status/1647127824199737346?s=20

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Vidqun

Fisherman and Scholar, this is the type of Watchtower logic which you are clinging to:

According to the book Revelation-Its Grand Climax At Hand!, pp. 162, 164, it is expressly stated that the 42 months of trampling of the temple courtyard should be interpreted literally, spanning from October 1914 to 1918. Officially the Great War raged between July, 28, 1914 to November, 11, 1918. Presumably the 42 months should be fitted somewhere in between these dates. According to their reckoning, the 1260 day preaching of the two witnesses should run concurrently with the 42 months of the trampling. During this period their president, J. F. Rutherford and colleagues, were arrested and jailed for sedition against the state, thus “killing” them as well as their preaching work. In Jehovah’s Witnesses-Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom, p. 70, it is reported: “The clergy-inspired opposition came to a head on May 7, 1918, when the U.S. federal warrants were issued for the arrest of J. F. Rutherford and several of his close associates. By mid-1918, Rutherford and seven associates found themselves in the federal penitentiary in Atlanta, Georgia.”

They would be “resurrected” when they were released and could carry on with their God-ordained work. According to Revelation-Its Grand Climax At Hand! p. 170, this work would be reactivated during the 1919 convention at Cedar Point, Ohio, USA: “Here the recently released president of the Watch Tower Society, J. F. Rutherford stirred conventioners with his talk “Announcing the Kingdom,”… Those of the John class began once again to “prophesy,” or “preach publicly.”

There’s a few problems associated with above interpretation. Although interesting, it can easily be disproved by referencing JW theology:

1) The two anointed prophets, members of the 144000, are to be sealed after the breaking of the sixth seal, a future event (cf. Rev. 6:12-7:3).

2) The chronology doesn’t fit. If the 42 months of the trampling are to run concurrently with the 1260 days of preaching, starting in October 1914, three and a half years from there would bring one to March 1918. Federal warrants for the arrest of Rutherford and company were issued May 7, 1918.

3) According to the general chronology of Revelation the two prophets will be appearing towards the middle of the Tribulation, after the sixth trumpet blast (cf. Rev. 9:12, 13; 11:3-6).

4) Last, but not least, Beast from the abyss (as the United Nations) was created in 1945, after the Second World War had ended (cf. Rev. 11:7; 17:8). Impossible for it to have been involved 1914-1918. Will not work with the League of Nations either. It was created after the First World War.

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Vidqun

The following explains the discrepancy in Daniel and Josephus. Daniel, for example, would have known Jerusalem was never desolate for 70 years. Josephus, on the other hand, would have followed the redactor of the book of Daniel, which turns out to be an error in transmission.

Devastations vs. reproach. In the OG we have ὀνειδισμός, meaning “reproach” (singular). See NETS. This is viewed as an error in transmission: Jer. 25:9 καὶ εἰς ὀνειδισμόν and (I turn them) into a disgrace ולחרפות is read for MT ולחרבת and (I will turn them) into desolations. However, as seen, Dan. 9:2 is not drawn from Jer. 29:10, but Jer. 25:9-12. Here it means “reproach, disgrace, insult” (cf. Jer. 18:16; 19:8; Ezek. 5:13, 14). Specifically Jer. 25:9וְלִשְׁרֵקָ֔ה וּלְחָרְב֖וֹת עוֹלָֽם , “and something to whistle at and places devastated to time indefinite.” LXX καὶ εἰς ὀνειδισμόν, ולחֶרְפַּת. See BHS footnote. KBLex, in accordance with the textcritical note suggests an emendation to לְחֶרְפַּת (“as a disgrace”). See J. Lust, E. Eynikel & K. Hauspie (2003). A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint: Revised Edition. Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft: Stuttgart. According to secular chronology, Jerusalem did not lie desolate for seventy years, but her reproach and humiliation could have started with Jehoiakim’s three year servitude, completing Jeremiah’s seventy year cycle (2 Kings 24:1, 2; cf. Is. 25:9, 11). See also Dan. 9:16, To become an object of reproach.

207

Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden in

scholar and fisherman, i started this thread because i didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.. i just wanted to ask if you were both current active jw's that believe the jw's beliefs?.

do y'all believe the gb are the f&ds?

if the answers are no, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

Vidqun

Jerusalem never lay desolate for seventy years. Here's a few relevant scriptures to indicate:

Seventy Years of Servitude: Three sieges. Five deportations. The Destruction of Jerusalem.

8 Therefore this is what Jehovah of armies has said, For the reason that YOU did not obey my words,

9 here I am sending and I will take all the families of the north, is the utterance of Jehovah, even [sending] to Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and I will bring them against this land and against its inhabitants and against all these nations round about; and I will devote them to destruction and make them an object of astonishment and something to whistle at and places devastated to time indefinite.

11 And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

12 And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation, is the utterance of Jehovah, their error, even against the land of the Chaldeans, and I will make it desolate wastes to time indefinite.

13 And I will bring in upon that land all my words that I have spoken against it, even all that is written in this book that Jeremiah has prophesied against all the nations. (Jer. 25:8, 9, 11-13)

For this is what Jehovah has said, In accord with the fulfilling of seventy years at Babylon [for Babylon, CSB, ESV, CSBO, NABO] I shall turn my attention to YOU people, and I will establish toward YOU my good word in bringing YOU back to this place. (Jer. 29:10)

This is what occurred as the word of Jehovah to Jeremiah the prophet concerning the nations,

2 For Egypt, concerning the military force of Pharaoh Necho the king of Egypt, who happened to be by the river Euphrates at Carchemish, whom Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon defeated in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, the king of Judah (Jer. 46:1, 2)

12 And in the fifth month, on the tenth day of the month, that is, [in] the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadrezzar, the king of Babylon, Nebuzaradan the chief of the bodyguard, who was standing before the king of Babylon, came into Jerusalem.

13 And he proceeded to burn the house of Jehovah and the house of the king and all the houses of Jerusalem; and every great house he burned with fire. (Jer. 52:12, 13)

27 And these the king of Babylon proceeded to strike down and to put them to death in Riblah in the land of Hamath. Thus Judah went into exile from off its soil.

28 These are the people whom Nebuchadrezzar took into exile, in the seventh year, three thousand and twenty-three Judahites.

29 In the eighteenth year of Nebuchadrezzar, from Jerusalem there were eight hundred and thirty-two souls.

30 In the twenty-third year of Nebuchadrezzar, Nebuzaradan the chief of the bodyguard took Judahites into exile, seven hundred and forty-five souls. All the souls were four thousand and six hundred. (Jer. 52:27-30)

In the third year of the kingship of Jehoiakim the king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and proceeded to lay siege to it. (Dan. 1:1)

So the angel of Jehovah answered and said, O Jehovah of armies, how long will you yourself not show mercy to Jerusalem and to the cities of Judah, whom you have denounced these seventy years? (Zech. 1:12)

20 Furthermore, he carried off those remaining from the sword captive to Babylon, and they came to be servants to him and his sons until the royalty of Persia began to reign;

21 to fulfill Jehovah's word by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had paid off its sabbaths. All the days of lying desolated it kept sabbath, to fulfill seventy years. (2 Chr. 36:20, 21)

An interesting article, attempting to harmonize the Bible with the Babylonian Chronicles is A. R. Green (1982). “The Chronology of the Last Days of Judah: Two Apparent Discrepancies.” Journal of Biblical Literature, 101, pp. 71, 72.

92

Chance or intelligent design?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

cofty could you answer how the single cell came about by chance?.

i know the argument for complexity in nature says natural selection over billions of years but this could not explain the complexity of the single cell the building blocks of life?.

Vidqun

Loveuni, don't know where you get your stats from. I'd say you are roughly out of the ballpark. You have males, with XY chromosomes, you get females with XX chromosomes, and you get intersex people (hermaphrodites),either XX, XY. or a combination of both. The latter are sexual developmental disorders, similar to the current "woke" gender confusion, which used to be called gender disphoria. It's abnormal, an aberration, similar to Down Syndrome, cleft lip an club foot. Think of it in terms of "mutation." In my part of the world some of it was caused by the spraying of DDT to ward off mosquitoes. So some of the problem is man-made. You refer to it as anomalies being thrown up. I view it as "imperfection" coming through.