Vidqun

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Posts by Vidqun

• 
  20

  Did Isaiah even predict Cyrus' name 150 years ago?

  by pokertopia in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  did isaiah even predict cyrus' name 150 years ago?.

  there were two types of prophets: individual prophets and court prophets.

  for example, before ahab went to war, 400 court prophets predicted ahab's victory, but michaya, an individual prophet, predicted his defeat.

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  Vidqun

  The claims are made. I see the results from those claims. In Ezra's case, he reported the history of the repatriation step by step. He was there as an eyewitness. His account follows the course of general history as was handed down to us. But in this one instance he would lie?

  Same goes for Josephus. He wrote up history to the best of his ability. But in this one instance he would fabricate the evidence by quoting myth. If you follow his writings, you will realize he was too proud to sully his reputation by publishing untruths or myths. He reported at the time that one could visit a tower Daniel had built which served as the burial place of kings. His countrymen and the Romans would have ridiculed him if he lied.

  264 Now when Daniel was become so illustrious and famous, on account of the opinion men had that he was beloved of God, he built a tower at Ecbatana, in Media: it was a most elegant building, and wonderfully made, and it is still remaining, and preserved to this day; and to such as see it, it appears to have been recently built, and to have been no older than that very day when anyone looks upon it, it is so fresh, flourishing, and beautiful, and no way grown old in so long time;
  265 for buildings suffer the same as men do, they grow old as well as they, and by numbers of years their strength is dissolved, and their beauty withered. Now they bury the kings of Media, of Persia, and Parthia in this tower, to this day, and he who was entrusted with the care of it was a Jewish priest; which thing is also observed to this day. (Ant 10:264-265 JOE)
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  20

  Did Isaiah even predict Cyrus' name 150 years ago?

  by pokertopia in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  did isaiah even predict cyrus' name 150 years ago?.

  there were two types of prophets: individual prophets and court prophets.

  for example, before ahab went to war, 400 court prophets predicted ahab's victory, but michaya, an individual prophet, predicted his defeat.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vidqun

  Lot of hearsay there. You have not proved your point. I hear what you are saying, just the proof is lacking. In general, Ezra and Josephus are reliable. I allow them the benefit of the doubt. Indirect proof is the survival and repatriation of the Jews and the rebuilding of Jerusalem and the temple. The fine detail of what happened we will hopefully find out one day. For the time being I work with, not what I surmise, but with what I have.
• 
  20

  Did Isaiah even predict Cyrus' name 150 years ago?

  by pokertopia in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  did isaiah even predict cyrus' name 150 years ago?.

  there were two types of prophets: individual prophets and court prophets.

  for example, before ahab went to war, 400 court prophets predicted ahab's victory, but michaya, an individual prophet, predicted his defeat.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Vidqun

  How sure are you that your sources are not biased? I know Grabbe is super-biased. His view is that fundamentalist Christians cannot be objective scholars because they are proving a given fact, i.e., for example the inerrancy of prophecy. But is that not exactly what you and Grabbe are doing, proving a given fact, i.e., the errancy of prophecy.

  Let me make it easy for you. You have to choose one of these. I know which you will choose, but that's your prerogative. I'll go with Mary Joan.

  Professor Lester L Grabbe argues that there was no decree but that there was a policy that allowed exiles to return to their homelands and rebuild their temples. He also argues that the archaeology suggests that the return was a "trickle", taking place over perhaps decades, resulting in a maximum population of perhaps 30,000. Philip R. Davies called the authenticity of the decree "dubious", citing Grabbe and adding that arguing against "the authenticity of Ezra 1.1–4 is J. Briend, in a paper given at the Institut Catholique de Paris on 15 December 1993, who denies that it resembles the form of an official document but reflects rather biblical prophetic idiom." Mary Joan Winn Leith believes that the decree in Ezra might be authentic and along with the Cylinder that Cyrus, like earlier rulers, was through these decrees trying to gain support from those who might be strategically important, particularly those close to Egypt which he wished to conquer. He also wrote that "appeals to Marduk in the cylinder and to Yahweh in the biblical decree demonstrate the Persian tendency to co-opt local religious and political traditions in the interest of imperial control." (Wikipedia)
• 
  20

  Did Isaiah even predict Cyrus' name 150 years ago?

  by pokertopia in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  did isaiah even predict cyrus' name 150 years ago?.

  there were two types of prophets: individual prophets and court prophets.

  for example, before ahab went to war, 400 court prophets predicted ahab's victory, but michaya, an individual prophet, predicted his defeat.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vidqun

  Nothing the Bible or Josephus says, contradicts available evidence. The Jews were free from captivity and the temple was rebuilt. Same as what happened in Babylon. Can you see the pattern?

  This was in order to quell social unrest, for the same reason that Cyrus dedicated a temple to Marduk in Babylon.

  Does the burden on proof not fall on you to prove or disprove what we say? I give you the necessary facts from my sources. Are you able to refute it in any way? If not, sit out.
  
• 
  20

  Did Isaiah even predict Cyrus' name 150 years ago?

  by pokertopia in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  did isaiah even predict cyrus' name 150 years ago?.

  there were two types of prophets: individual prophets and court prophets.

  for example, before ahab went to war, 400 court prophets predicted ahab's victory, but michaya, an individual prophet, predicted his defeat.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vidqun

  But they did get special treatment. The golden temple utensils, raided by the Babylonians, were returned to them. So I go with Josephus, until proven otherwise.
• 
  20

  Did Isaiah even predict Cyrus' name 150 years ago?

  by pokertopia in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  did isaiah even predict cyrus' name 150 years ago?.

  there were two types of prophets: individual prophets and court prophets.

  for example, before ahab went to war, 400 court prophets predicted ahab's victory, but michaya, an individual prophet, predicted his defeat.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vidqun

  Yup, Jeffro, that's your opinion and that of many sceptics. However, Cyrus favoured the Jews. He actually sponsored them to build the temple. He returned the temple utensils. Why? Josephus explains the why. I set great store by his account. It explains a lot. In addition, the version according to the book of Ezra is confirmed by the Cyrus cylinder.

  The main proponent of your theory is Prof. Lester L. Grabbe. He doesn't like the Bible or predictive prophecy at all. He has a serious gripe about "fundamentalism." I have his article on Daniel. You will like him. His whole purpose in life is to denigrate the Scriptures and prophecy. Although I must give him his due, he inspired me to do my research.
• 
  20

  Did Isaiah even predict Cyrus' name 150 years ago?

  by pokertopia in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  did isaiah even predict cyrus' name 150 years ago?.

  there were two types of prophets: individual prophets and court prophets.

  for example, before ahab went to war, 400 court prophets predicted ahab's victory, but michaya, an individual prophet, predicted his defeat.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vidqun

  Overall Josephus was a trustworthy historian. According to him Cyrus was aware of the Isaiah prophecy. This made him favor the Jews, allowing them to return to their homeland and rebuild the temple. Later Darius discovered Cyrus' edict and he allowed the Jews to carry on with their work. In the end the temple was rebuilt.

  JOE Antiquities of the Jews 11:1 In the first year of the reign of Cyrus {a} which was the seventieth from the day that our people were moved out of their own land into Babylon, God pitied the captivity and calamity of these poor people, according as he had foretold to them by Jeremiah the prophet, before the destruction of the city,
  2 that after they had served Nebuchadnezzar and his posterity, and after they had undergone that servitude seventy years, he would restore them again to the land of their fathers, and they should build their temple, and enjoy their ancient prosperity. And these things God did afford them;
  3 for he stirred up the mind of Cyrus, and made him write this throughout all Asia:--``Thus says Cyrus the king: Since God Almighty has appointed me to be king of the habitable earth, I believe that he is that God which the nation of the Israelites worship;
  4 for indeed he foretold my name by the prophets, and that I should build him a house at Jerusalem, in the country of Judea.''
  5 This was known to Cyrus by his reading the book which Isaiah left behind him of his prophecies; for this prophet said that God had spoken thus to him in a secret vision:--``My will is, that Cyrus, whom I have appointed to be king over many and great nations, send back my people to their own land, and build my temple.''
  6 This was foretold by Isaiah one hundred and forty years before the temple was demolished. Accordingly, when Cyrus read this, and admired the divine power, an earnest desire and ambition seized upon him to fulfil what was so written; so he called for the most eminent Jews that were in Babylon, and said to them, that he gave them permission to go back to their own country, and to rebuild their city of Jerusalem, {b} and the temple of God, (Ant 11:1-6)

  ``King Darius to Tatnai the governor, and to Shetharboznai, sends greeting. Having found a copy of this letter among the records of Cyrus, I have sent it you; and I will that all things be done as is therein written. Farewell.''

  105 So when Tatnai, and those who were with him, understood the intention of the king, they resolved to follow his directions entirely for the time to come. So they forwarded the sacred works, and assisted the elders of the Jews, and the princes of the Sanhedrin (Ant 11:104, 105 JOE)
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  49

  a pet peeve of mine

  by enoughisenough in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  putting this under "friends" because i couldn't figure out where to put it.

  it is very often on here and in ex jw videos, ect that people like to undermine some of those who once we would have called friends.

  there seems to be a view that window washers, plumbers, cleaners, construction workers are somehow less intelligent than those who may be college educated.

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  Vidqun

  It matters little how you view JWs or their occupations. What matters is how they view you. In their eyes you are an apostate or worldly person, not worthy of life and about to be destroyed. They view themselves as God's chosen people, alone worthy of life. They are mentally handicapped because of years of indoctrination and we should pity them no matter who or what they are.
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  65

  The currently missing 'Titan' submarine. What do you think?

  by SydBarrett in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any opinions are just speculation, but my guess, being morbid, is that there was not a hull breach and implosion (although that would have been the most merciful fate for them), but instead the amateur level of building this thing meant that it lost power and communication and got itself tangled in the titanic's wreckage or is sitting on the actual seabed with no way to release ballast to resurface.

  terrifying.

  what's your gut feeling?

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  Vidqun

  It's called dominating the news cycle:

  https://www.zerohedge.com/political/distraction-questions-swirl-over-timing-sub-story-biden-bombshells-hit-target
  
• 
  65

  The currently missing 'Titan' submarine. What do you think?

  by SydBarrett in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any opinions are just speculation, but my guess, being morbid, is that there was not a hull breach and implosion (although that would have been the most merciful fate for them), but instead the amateur level of building this thing meant that it lost power and communication and got itself tangled in the titanic's wreckage or is sitting on the actual seabed with no way to release ballast to resurface.

  terrifying.

  what's your gut feeling?

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  Vidqun

  Hope this isn't true.