Posts by Vidqun

18

Romans 10: 9 Simple Salvation - Not So Fast Says WT.

by Sea Breeze in

"if you confess with your mouth that jesus is lord and believe in your heart that god raised him from the dead, you will be saved".

- romans 10: 9. i find it interesting that this simple requirement for salvation has been a specific target of wt since their beginning.. first, jw's call jehovah lord, not jesus.

the fact that scripture calls jesus the king of kings and lord of lords doesn't seem to matter to them.

Vidqun

Sea Breeze, I believe in "supplemental" theology in the sense that the Israel concept was enlarged to include the nations, i.e., Christians. There is a debate as to what the trunk symbolizes. Jesus is the root, as many scriptures indicate (cf. Is. 11:10; 53:2; Rom. 15:12; Rev. 5:5; 22:6; cf. Rom. 11:17, 18). The wild olive branches would be the people of the nations, i.e., Christians. Natural branches, to be grafted in again, would be the Jewish remnant.

Originally, Israel was in a privileged position: "who, as such, are Israelites, to whom belong the adoption as sons and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the sacred service and the promises; to whom the forefathers belong and from whom the Christ [sprang] according to the flesh" (Rom. 9:4, 5 NWT). Now they must share these privileges with the people of the nations: "For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for there is the same Lord over all, who is rich to all those calling upon him." (Rom. 10:12 NWT)

Israel would have been the premier nation if they stayed the course. Now only a remnant will be saved (Rom. 10:22, 23; cf. Is. 10:22, 23). While Jesus was on earth, they claimed their superiority because of being offspring of Abraham (Luke 8:39, 44). But Paul explained Abraham was righteous, not because of circumcision, but because of his faith (Gal. 3:6, 7). On this basis Christians also become “offspring” of Abraham, because of their faith (3:8, 9, 29).

18

Romans 10: 9 Simple Salvation - Not So Fast Says WT.

by Sea Breeze in

"if you confess with your mouth that jesus is lord and believe in your heart that god raised him from the dead, you will be saved".

- romans 10: 9. i find it interesting that this simple requirement for salvation has been a specific target of wt since their beginning.. first, jw's call jehovah lord, not jesus.

the fact that scripture calls jesus the king of kings and lord of lords doesn't seem to matter to them.

Vidqun

Don't worry Sea Breeze, I looked it up. Seems like they view the broken off branches as the natural Jews and the wild branches as the 144,000. But then they still have the problem with the remnant of natural Jews that is going to be saved. Sometime in future these will be regrafted to the tree because of His promises to their forefathers.

So this is how I see it: Natural branches (Jewish remnant) + wild olive branches (Christians) = All Israel, i.e., the Israel of God (Rom. 11:25, 26; Gal. 6:15, 16).

According to the Watchtower: What do the various features of the symbolic olive tree represent?

The tree: the fulfillment of God’s purpose regarding the Abrahamic covenant
The trunk: Jesus, the principal part of Abraham’s offspring
The branches: the full number of the secondary part of Abraham’s offspring

The “broken off” branches: natural Jews who rejected Jesus
The “grafted in” branches: spirit-anointed Christians out of the nations

As foretold, Abraham’s offspring—Jesus and the 144,000—will bring blessings “to people of the nations.”—Ro 11:12; Ge 22:18

18

Romans 10: 9 Simple Salvation - Not So Fast Says WT.

by Sea Breeze in

"if you confess with your mouth that jesus is lord and believe in your heart that god raised him from the dead, you will be saved".

- romans 10: 9. i find it interesting that this simple requirement for salvation has been a specific target of wt since their beginning.. first, jw's call jehovah lord, not jesus.

the fact that scripture calls jesus the king of kings and lord of lords doesn't seem to matter to them.

Vidqun

Sea Breeze, while you're on the subject of Romans, can you tell me how JWs interpret the olive tree, the breaking off of the natural branches and the grafting in of wild olive branches? If I remember correctly they view Israel as the 144,000. Who would the wild olive branches be?

It is clear that Israel here refers to fleshly Israel, because he quotes Isaiah (10:22, 23): "Moreover, Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, Although the number of the sons of Israel may be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved." (Rom. 9:27) Later on he reasons that God will show mercy to the remnant because of his promises to their forefathers: "True, with reference to the good news they are enemies for YOUR sakes, but with reference to [God's] choosing they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers." (Rom. 11:28 NWT) Again, this proves that he views the natural branches as fleshly Jews.

I remember there was a Watchtower article dealing with the subject many years ago, but my memory fails me.

34

The snake of Genesis 3:1

by Halcon in

we've got some really knowledgeable members on here so i have a question for them and everybody.

what was the earliest adjective used to describe the snake of genesis 3:1?

currently one can read words in english translations like 'cunning' and 'crafty'....but in other languages you see words like 'wise' and astute...which convey a completely different idea.. i'm wondering what may have been the earliest and most accurate adjective known or used.

Vidqun

It can mean anyone of those, depending on the context. I like the explanation of TWOT:

עָרוּם adj. crafty, shrewd, sensible;—1. crafty, ע׳ as pred., of serpent Gn 3:1; pl. as subst. מַחְשְׁבוֹת עֲרוּמִים Jb 5:12, לְשׁוֹן ע׳ 15:5. 2. in Pr, in good sense )opp. אֱוִיל, כְּסִיל, (פֶּתִי; as attrib. אָדָם עָרוּם Pr 12:23 a shrewd or sensible man; ע׳ as subst. = id., v:16, 13:16, so חָכְמַת ע׳ v:8; = prudent man 14:15, 22:3, 27:12; pl. עֲרוּמִים 14:18. BDB.

—1. cunning: נָחָשׁ Gn 31 )Sept. φρόνιμος, Matthew 1016(, Jb 512 155;
—2. clever ):: פֶּתִי, כְּסִיל, (אֱוִיל Pr 1216.23 )Bühlmann Vom rechten Reden und Schweigen )Göttingen 1976(:232f: smart(, 1316 )for כָּל־ rd. (כֹּל, 148.15.18 223 2712. HALOT.

עָרוּם: pl. עֲרוּמִים: subtle, shrewd, clever Gn 3:1. ) pg. 283. (Holladay Lex).

'arûm. Crafty, prudent, subtle. The adjective `arûm is construed to be a positive virtue when rendered "prudent." The prudent one does not vaunt his knowledge (Prov 12:23), ignores an insult (Prov 12:16), acts with knowledge (Prov 14:8), looks where he is going (Prov 14:15), sees danger and acts appropriately (Prov 22:3 = Prov 27:12), and is crowned with knowledge (Prov 14:18).
This adjective is negative when rendered "crafty" (see Job 5:12; Job 15:5). The most memorable use of
`arûm in this negative nuance is, of course, Gen 3:1, "Now the serpent was more crafty than any other wild creature which the Lord God had made." His "malevolent brilliance" (D. Kidner, Genesis, Chicago: Inter Varsity, p. 67) is contrasted by paronomasia to the naked innocence of Adam and Eve in Gen 2:25 (`arûm "craftiness, " vs. `arûmmîm "nakedness;" see U. Cassuto, Genesis, I, p. 143). TWOT.

6

The apostle Paul was WRONGLY inspired by the H.S.: The New Covenant is NOT everlasting!

by BoogerMan in

only its benefits will be everlasting.

(for the earthly 2nd class sheep).

w80 7/1 p. 31 - questions from readers - why does the november 15, 1979, issue of the watchtower (pages 26, 27) speak of the “new covenant” being near the end of its operation, when hebrews 13:20 speaks of this covenant as being “an everlasting covenant”?

Vidqun

The edifices they have built, are certainly crumbling. They have hijacked all the covenants, which is nonsensical. I have always maintained, one cannot be the figurative tribes of Israel and be governing the tribes of Israel. You are either the one or the other (Rev. 7:1-8). The leadership of Israel will fall under the kingdom covenant (Matt. 19:28; Luke 22:28-30).

Who is the Israel of God (Gal. 6:15, 16)? According to Rom. 11 Paul explained it with an olive tree. All Israel (olive tree) = Jewish remnant (natural branches) + Christians (wild olive branches): Rom. 9:27; 11:16, 17, 25-27.

The new covenant is concluded with "all Israel," which will be permanent, as indicated above (Hebr. 8:10; 13:20). It is the former covenant that will become obsolete (8:13).

So, who makes up the temple?

16 Do YOU not know that YOU people are God's temple, and that the spirit of God dwells in YOU?

17 If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] YOU people are. (1 Cor. 3:16-17; cf. 1 Cor. 6:16; Eph. 2:21, 22).

JWs insist the 144,000 make up this temple. The bad news for them is that there is no temple in heaven (Rev. 21:22). Where Revelation mentions the heavenly sanctuary, this is the tabernacle sanctuary (cf. Rev. 15:5). Another indication that the temple is on earth. The courtyard of this temple will be trampled by the nations for 42 months (Rev. 11:2).

18

Do JWs Really Say This?

by NotFormer in

i stumbled, via a google search, upon a part of jw space that is usually heavily defended against outsiders like my good self.

in a discussion, someone started their post with "i (started doing x)... when the slave began to suggest doing so"*.

do pimis really talk that way?

Vidqun

They should call them "kings," because they are reigning already (cf. 1 Cor. 4:8). They did call themselves "dukes" or "sheiks" a while back. Perhaps they should use such a term as it has been sanctioned by the top.

27

Irán attacks....

by mikeflood in

just a moment ago irán started to attack israel, guess they're gonna end in ruins because israel has a way better army than other country in the region and the support of the us....hope the gas prices don't increase too much.... wonder how the borg gonna spin it..

Vidqun

Israel did bomb their Syrian Embassy. This was to be expected.

2

Extra-Biblical Testimonies of Jesus

by Vidqun in

the first video deals with pilate's report to caesar.

factually accurate according to the gospels.

he blames the jews.

Vidqun

Phizzy, so you will never know.

2

Extra-Biblical Testimonies of Jesus

by Vidqun in

the first video deals with pilate's report to caesar.

factually accurate according to the gospels.

he blames the jews.

Vidqun

The first video deals with Pilate's report to Caesar. Factually accurate according to the Gospels. He blames the Jews. Perhaps too good to be true?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQUJGceTH9I

The second deals with Caiaphas' report to the Sanhedrin. He gives reasons why Jesus was not given full a Jewish judicial inquiry. He blames the Romans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RcjKTOZ4bE

8

Are JWs becoming more militant?

by Vidqun in

after their courtcase in norway going wrong, splane actually warns lawmakers that they will be in big trouble if they don't change their ways.

he's referring to the preaching work, which has nothing to do with the case.

it's all about their treatment of ex-jws.

Vidqun

Gorb, I also measure it against my brother's reaction when he heard that I "preached" to someone. By the way, he's a fanatical Uber elder. I, as an "apostate," often have conversations with people regarding fleshly Israel, Replacement Theology and the Israel of God. His reaction: "How dare he preach! By what authority does he preach?" As though I, as an apostate, am not allowed to talk to others regarding spiritual matters. If I go by him and his reaction, also his leader Splane's warning, JWs have become more militant and aggressive. But perhaps my brother (and Splane) are exceptions to the rule. My brother hates my guts because our mother is on my side and he can't stomach that.