Posts by Vidqun

218

Debating With Evolution Deniers is Just Like This

by cofty in

arguing with those who reject scientific evidence can be like arguing about football; just as angry and passionate, but the goalposts keep moving, and one team doesn't exist.. read more here....

Vidqun

Caedes, not sure which question you want answered. I would have been a much better linguist than a scientist, but my father was a biology teacher and he insisted I do a BSC. My natural disposition would have been languages in which I excelled at school. But he did not want me to become a teacher, etc. And with it all came the Witness thing. My mother was a Witness.

That's one of the problems with the theory of evolution in my opinion, a lack of consensus on the definition. Yes, I know, one of the favorite excuses of evolutionists is the time factor. That's why it remains a theory. It cannot demonstrated.

I have mentioned the Coelecanth and the Horseshoe crab, millions of years old and no change. What happened there? Then there's the development of the horse as an example of evolution. Retired. And the same goes with the development of the whale. Some things are not right there either. So, no, I am not convinced. And the practical implications of an sea animal evolving and becoming a land animal. Then to reverse the process for the land animal to become a whale or dolphin. It strains all credibility.

In the case of Staph. aureus, you incubate the bacterium in a meat broth, then spray it out on a blood agar plate. You place a methicillin resistant disc on the plate. If the organism overgrows the methicillin disc, it is a problem, especially in a hospital environment. Farmers are contributing to the problem by treating their animals (cattle, sheep and chickens) with antibiotics. We are contributing to the problem by using antibiotics and releasing them in the water system through drainage. Doctors are compounding the problem by unnecessarily prescribing antibiotics (e.g., for flu which is caused by a virus). Drug companies do not want to spend millions on an antibiotic that is soon going to become worthless as the bacteria becomes more resistant. So yes, I think hospital infections of super bugs are on the increase and it is going to get worse, before it gets better.

218

Debating With Evolution Deniers is Just Like This

by cofty in

arguing with those who reject scientific evidence can be like arguing about football; just as angry and passionate, but the goalposts keep moving, and one team doesn't exist.. read more here....

Vidqun

Yes Giles, the possibility that we live in a simulation cannot be ruled out. Or, a Prometheus type civilization seeding the earth is also a possibility. If it is a simulation, would you not need a creator to create the simulation (as in the Matrix Trilogy)?

218

Debating With Evolution Deniers is Just Like This

by cofty in

arguing with those who reject scientific evidence can be like arguing about football; just as angry and passionate, but the goalposts keep moving, and one team doesn't exist.. read more here....

Vidqun

Caedes, one cannot work in a laboratory without qualifications. I thought I made that clear.

A few definitions of evolution: the process by which different kinds of living organism are believed to have developed from earlier forms during the history of the earth.

Change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift.

The gradual process by which the present diversity of plant and animal life arose from the earliest and most primitive organisms, which is believed to have been continuing for the past 3000 million years (Oxford).

What you see in the laboratory with methicillin resistant Staphylococcus aureus and resistant M. tuberculosis, amongst others, do not prove the process of evolution. In Lenski’s E. coli experiments some E. coli strains developed the ability to grow in a citrate medium. However, as above definitions indicate, such examples do not qualify as evolutionary. The process is called adaptation. You’ll notice evolution describes the development of different organisms from earlier forms. I am glad to inform you, above examples remain part of their genus and species. No new genus and no new species. Bacterial antibiotic resistance does not demonstrate the process of evolution. As I’ve said before, as a laboratory worker, I am thankful that these stay as they are, otherwise the identification process would have been very complicated indeed.

If your immune system works optimally, you would be able to survive all of the above, even invading cancer cells. Your immune system will sort them out. If your immune system is suppressed or not working optimally, because of various factors, then you've got problems. This concept is scientifically feasible and fits in well with Christian theology. But I don't think you would be interested in that.

218

Debating With Evolution Deniers is Just Like This

by cofty in

arguing with those who reject scientific evidence can be like arguing about football; just as angry and passionate, but the goalposts keep moving, and one team doesn't exist.. read more here....

Vidqun

Cofty: Arguing with those who reject scientific evidence can be like arguing about football; just as angry and passionate, but the goalposts keep moving, and one team doesn't exist.

There’s some irony there, don’t you think? The moment has come that I need to thank all of you for your inputs, especially Cofty, Caedes and Viviane. You demonstrate the evolutionary way of doing things. Those unbiased observers out there will notice that this is not logical at all. It is also highly unpleasant for anyone that holds an opposing view. As long as they dish out the ridicule, it is acceptable. But as soon as the shoe is on the other foot, they are up in arms. If I did step on some toes and caused hurt, I apologize. I hope that at least some of you would have benefited from the discussion.

Information theory and information technology are here to stay, whether they like it or not. Information cannot be brought forth out of thin air or from non-living matter, organic or non-organic. For information to see the light of day, one needs an intelligence, i.e., a brain. A book has to be written by an author. A computer has to be programmed by a programmer. At this stage life is so complex, we as humans can replicate life by using existing life forms. We have not as yet succeeded in creating life from scratch.

Evolutionists are happy as long as one does not refer to DNA as an information system or compare it to a computer program. The reasons for this are obvious. Unfortunately, because of its complexity, scientists are forced to study it, that is the working of DNA, RNA and the manufacture of proteins, by means of mathematical equations, computer simulations and programs. I stress the point, an information system cannot develop by itself or be derived from non-living matter. So, what are the alternatives? You be the judge….

218

Debating With Evolution Deniers is Just Like This

by cofty in

arguing with those who reject scientific evidence can be like arguing about football; just as angry and passionate, but the goalposts keep moving, and one team doesn't exist.. read more here....

Vidqun

Cofty, you started the ball rolling with "Have you read any books?" remember? So those that barge in without a clue, well they give and receive in full measure. It's not one way traffic, you know.

Caedes, yes I was a glorified technician, that's all. I have never claimed otherwise. Remember, I told you about the ambition-thing amongst the Witnesses. Did you miss that? But really, do I want to justify myself before you, Cofty and Viviane, that is the question. Who do you think you are? What are your qualifications? Yes, I insist, I want to know.

Caedes: As and additional question who are you to be interfering with god's plan by identifying microorganisms under a microscope?

What are you talking about? Are you confusing JWs with the Amish? How would one interfere with "god's plan" by identifying microorganisms under a microscope? A Medical Microbiologist needs to identify the problem organism and do senses to inform the doctor, how to treat the patient. It's for the benefit of the patient. There is nothing in the Christian ethic to prevent one from doing good and helping one's fellow man. Are you taking the mickey out of me? On medication, perhaps?

218

Debating With Evolution Deniers is Just Like This

by cofty in

arguing with those who reject scientific evidence can be like arguing about football; just as angry and passionate, but the goalposts keep moving, and one team doesn't exist.. read more here....

Vidqun

Now, let's see, a lack of oxygen might mean the are lesions in the lungs. A possibility then is TB caused by Mycobacterium tuberculosis causing TB. There's two Mycobacteria of note, M. tuberculosis and M. leprae (causing leprosy).

Today, M. leprae is not a problem anymore because it is quite sensitive to antibiotics. M. tuberculosis is huge problem, especially in Developing countries. Often it presents in people that have AIDS. It's identification is as follows: Bloody sputum passed early in the morning is ideal. One places the sputum on a slide and stains it with a Ziehl-Neelsen stain. One heats the stain on the slide for a few minutes, then you wash it off with a weak acid. M. tuberculosis is a small gram negative bacilli (reddish under the microscope). It is acid-fast, so it will absorb the ZN stain, whereas the acid will wash the rest of the slide. Mouth epithelial cells stain blue.

One can also stain TB bacilli with a fluorescent stain. But for that you need a fluorescent microscope. Under it, the small TB bacilli fluoresces and look like bright little stars against a black backdrop. Even if you do not see the bacilli, but suspect TB, you do a TB culture. This is done aerobically in bottles on a greenish egg medium. This takes approximately five weeks. The TB colonies present yellow on the green egg medium. All positive TB sputums are cultivated in this way. Afterwards, in specialized laboratories, antibiotic discs are used to check sensitivity (not sure whether they are using antibiotic discs or dilutions - we always sent the bottles away to a specialized lab to estimate antibiotic sensitivity).

The problem with M. tuberculosis is that it is highly contagious and very dangerous. Laboratory personel use a reverse vapour cuboard, which is sealed and sucks out the air away from the person working with the sputums. Recently resistant strains have developed. All antibiotic treatment fails. The organism systematically destroys the host. I haven't been in a lab for a long time, so I wouldn't know whether above techniques have been changed or improved.

218

Debating With Evolution Deniers is Just Like This

by cofty in

arguing with those who reject scientific evidence can be like arguing about football; just as angry and passionate, but the goalposts keep moving, and one team doesn't exist.. read more here....

Vidqun

Nicolau, as a Medical Microbiologist, I would not know much of the flora and fauna of an eagle. Take note of the word "demonstration." If she followed the thread, and not jumped in at the end, she would have known what was going on. She preferred to play her silly word games and was rewarded accordingly. So tell me, you are condoning her response yet condemning me? Then you didn't follow thread either.

218

Debating With Evolution Deniers is Just Like This

by cofty in

arguing with those who reject scientific evidence can be like arguing about football; just as angry and passionate, but the goalposts keep moving, and one team doesn't exist.. read more here....

Vidqun

Cofty, you may be right. Viv's problem might not be psycological. It might be physical, lack of oxygen.

Demonstration: Then it might be a case of tersiary siphilis. The spirochaete T. pallidum, if left untreated, attacks the brain. This disease was quite rampant during the 17th and 18th century. The British called it the French disease and the French called it the British disease. That's what I meant by discussing an organism (related to Microbiology of course). Off the cuff I can tell a lot of stories, without having the chance to Google it.

Perhaps she's got a pubic itch distracting her. Pubic lice or Pthiris pubis looks like a little monkey under the microscope. Its palm tree is the pubic hair. It climbs up the hair and stays there. Then comes down when hungry and drink blood. This bite causes an irritating rash. The lice itself looks like a little scab on the skin. When you see it on a person, you start itching all over. It's psychosomatic, all in the brain. And no, it doesn't help blaming dogs or horses. It is a human problem, adapted to survive on human pubic hair alone. Course of action: An ointment, razor and the removal of all pubic hair.

218

Debating With Evolution Deniers is Just Like This

by cofty in

arguing with those who reject scientific evidence can be like arguing about football; just as angry and passionate, but the goalposts keep moving, and one team doesn't exist.. read more here....

Vidqun

You are an idiot.

218

Debating With Evolution Deniers is Just Like This

by cofty in

arguing with those who reject scientific evidence can be like arguing about football; just as angry and passionate, but the goalposts keep moving, and one team doesn't exist.. read more here....

Vidqun

Viviane, I am talking of those organisms that are covered under the heading Microbiology, you know Staphs and Streps and E.coli's, and Klebsiella's, and Pseudomonas', Enterobacters, Yersinias, Neisserias and Mycobacteria, etc. How would one go about to identify one of these in a lab? These are things a layperson would not know. I asked Caedes the same thing, but he also ignored the question. You must at least read through the last few pages of the thread to know what's going on. But don't worry about it. It's quite late where I am and It's time for bed.