Posts by Vidqun

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

No Cofty, I don't believe the spirit or life force in a living organism is mysterious at all. While all the processes in your body function as they should, you are alive. When one or more fail, you die. God is the source of life in the sense that he originated and kickstarted all the processes that sustain life. The organism must take it from there, supplying nutrients and water to keep the said processes going.

I go for the rule: Life begets life. In addition, man has been bequeathed with a magnificent brain, superior to the animals. In that sense man was made in God's image. If God could create life, so could man. It's just a question of time. The question is: Would he be allowed the time to do it?

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

Cofty, with the speed of technological advancement and regular scientific breakthroughs, nothing is impossible. The sky is the limit. But I am not sure man is going to be allowed to go all the way. Then he would be a god. And with being a god, comes responsibility. Man has proved his irresponsibility over and over again. So yes, it's not impossible, but I don't see mankind being allowed the leeway to develop to such an extent that he becomes a danger to himself and all living things on the planet. Is it Chris Rea that sang: "The Road to Hell." If man carres on the way he's going, we will end up in a Mad Max scenario. Not sure whether that was what God had in mind. Somehow, I don't think so.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

And here's the life cycle.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

Ruby, as stated before in this thread, I believe its our definition of death are due for a drastic makeover. Some view viruses as encapsulated rogue DNA/RNA strands, but they are much more than that. Though inert, they are alive alright. As you said, their potential functionalism should define their living or dead status.

Because they can only make use of the equipment of living cells to replicate themselves, they are called obligatory intracellular parasites. Here are some illustrations of a T-even bacteriophage (host: E. coli) and its life cycle. It resembles a syringe, somewhat more complicated than our plastic variety, and is species specific. Again the chicken and egg question: Which of the two came first?

I find it hard to imagine that it would develop spontaneously by itself. Before anyone asks: Yes, I do believe viruses were designed and that with a fully functional, optimally tuned immune system, one would be able to resist any viral or bacterial attack.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

Cofty, I cannot work the process of evolution into my present worldview for various reasons. But to be honest, finding life on Mars as well as demonstrating, in a lab, how life started from A-Z, would effectively demolish my present worldview and I would have to start the reconstruction process in all earnestness. But we are not there yet. Even if it could be done which I strongly doubt, then it would not be in my life time, I am reasonably sure of that.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

Hi Viv, where have you been hiding? Good to hear from you. The wannabee microbiologist is again at your service.

Interesting for a guy on psychedelic mushrooms to know man will reach a point in future where he is able to destroy his earthly home. It’s called prophecy, don’t you know? The little swallow knows not to defecate in his nest, a lesson man has not learnt as yet, especially now in the nuclear age.

However, if vermin and insects invade your home and are in the process of destroying it, you get in pest control to get rid of them. Remember “Apocalypse Now!” and the general standing on the beach, saying: “I love the smell of napalm in the morning.” I, again, find solace in the words, “and to destroy those who are destroying the earth” (Rev. 11:18 NJB).

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

Cofty, If it is easy to cobble these processes together, even with simplified, rudimentary precursors, we should be seeing results quite soon, but perhaps not. My worldview is open to change. I constantly work at it, taking in consideration a variety of inputs, e.g., archaeology, development of language, etc. But to go into it right now, would derail your thread on the origin of life, so rather not.

One example that might fit, is a possible new definition of death. Doctors have developed a technique of "suspending" a badly injured person in low temperatures for three hours or more. They remove his blood and replace it with Ringer solution. This allows them time to fix for example an injury to his heart without him bleeding out. Gradually he is heated and the Ringer solution replaced with his blood. The person recovers fully without negative effects. In the olden days you were viewed as being dead when your heart stopped beating and your brain stopped functioning. So the processes, sustaining your life, could be "suspended" and then reactivated.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

Ruby, to start off the organism is dead, remember. Now to get the organism to function normally, eating, breathing, replicating, as what one would expect from a living organism.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

Cofty, let's say scientists will soon be able to replicate a one-celled organism exactly, cell wall, cell membrane. organelles, nucleus, enzymes, catalysts, proteins, etc. But now, how to get things going? Remember, the organism is dead. Even if all the nutrients are present, how to start the different cycles? Glycolysis, the Kreb Cycle, electron transport chain, aerobic and/or anaerobic respiration, etc. You are confident that they are going to do it: "It's only a matter of time." I am not so sure. It's a long shot. So, when I see it, I believe it.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

Cofty: Science says all you need is rock, water and carbon dioxide.

And that is exactly the reason why I believe what I believe. You can shake, dilute, concentrate, and/or electrocute rock, water, and carbon dioxide. You can do with such a chemical composition whatever you want. You can change the combination and concentrations in any way you want. And whatever you do, you and your fellow evolutionists can carry on doing it for a million years non-stop. But let me assure you, life and its processes will not be kick started in such a way, yes, even if you stand on your head.