Posts by Vidqun

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

A Ha, you are mistaken to imply I use my rule to prove God exists. Take note, this is what I said (allow me to quote myself):

It's a rule from personal experience. This is what I see in nature. So far I have not seen anything else to contradict the rule, so I stick with it.

Here I implored Viv to leave God out for the moment:

Not even one example? Not even a little one? Well, my rule stands then. Let's leave God out of the equation for the moment. This is the way nature works, whether you like it or not.

See, God doesn't come in the picture here. That's my belief from what I gather from the evidence, nothing more, nothing less. In order to disprove my rule, you must come up with contrary examples, with evidence that refutes the rule. So far there's no takers, so the rule stands (until such time as the scientists prove me wrong).

This would be similar to Newton's law of gravity being rewritten by Einstein's theory of general relativity. Gravity is not an ordinary force but a property of space-time geometry. The apple is not being pulled down by the mass of the planet. Its fall causes a gravitational wave and is pushed down by causing a ripple in the space-time continuum. So, there goes Newton's law out of the window.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

Viv, you are getting warmer and warmer. You're nearly there.

Viv: it would require the complete knowledge of all life everywhere for all of time.

Here you are talking of God, don't you know?

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

Not even one example? Not even a little one? Well, my rule stands then. Let's leave God out of the equation for the moment. This is the way nature works, whether you like it or not. In actual fact, my rule can be viewed as a law. A "law" implies a statement of order and relation in nature that has been found to be invariable under the same conditions (e.g., the law of gravitation). See Webster.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

Viv, my rule says: Life begets life. Life brings forth life. That's the evidence before me. Please, would you be so kind as to let me know of any example, where that is not the case. Thank you in anticipation.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

It's a rule from personal experience. This is what I see in nature. So far I have not seen anything else to contradict the rule, so I stick with it.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

No Cofty, I don't believe the spirit or life force in a living organism is mysterious at all. While all the processes in your body function as they should, you are alive. When one or more fail, you die. God is the source of life in the sense that he originated and kickstarted all the processes that sustain life. The organism must take it from there, supplying nutrients and water to keep the said processes going.

I go for the rule: Life begets life. In addition, man has been bequeathed with a magnificent brain, superior to the animals. In that sense man was made in God's image. If God could create life, so could man. It's just a question of time. The question is: Would he be allowed the time to do it?

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

Cofty, with the speed of technological advancement and regular scientific breakthroughs, nothing is impossible. The sky is the limit. But I am not sure man is going to be allowed to go all the way. Then he would be a god. And with being a god, comes responsibility. Man has proved his irresponsibility over and over again. So yes, it's not impossible, but I don't see mankind being allowed the leeway to develop to such an extent that he becomes a danger to himself and all living things on the planet. Is it Chris Rea that sang: "The Road to Hell." If man carres on the way he's going, we will end up in a Mad Max scenario. Not sure whether that was what God had in mind. Somehow, I don't think so.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

And here's the life cycle.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

Ruby, as stated before in this thread, I believe its our definition of death are due for a drastic makeover. Some view viruses as encapsulated rogue DNA/RNA strands, but they are much more than that. Though inert, they are alive alright. As you said, their potential functionalism should define their living or dead status.

Because they can only make use of the equipment of living cells to replicate themselves, they are called obligatory intracellular parasites. Here are some illustrations of a T-even bacteriophage (host: E. coli) and its life cycle. It resembles a syringe, somewhat more complicated than our plastic variety, and is species specific. Again the chicken and egg question: Which of the two came first?

I find it hard to imagine that it would develop spontaneously by itself. Before anyone asks: Yes, I do believe viruses were designed and that with a fully functional, optimally tuned immune system, one would be able to resist any viral or bacterial attack.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Vidqun

Cofty, I cannot work the process of evolution into my present worldview for various reasons. But to be honest, finding life on Mars as well as demonstrating, in a lab, how life started from A-Z, would effectively demolish my present worldview and I would have to start the reconstruction process in all earnestness. But we are not there yet. Even if it could be done which I strongly doubt, then it would not be in my life time, I am reasonably sure of that.