Posts by Vidqun

11

The G.B. are now going to be EQUAL with Christ in heaven!!!!

by BoogerMan in

they are not just going to be "joint kings and priests," oh no, because the latest washtowel is sneakily implying that they will be "joint kings and high priests.

october 2023 study watchtower p. 28, par.

13 - "after jesus was resurrected, he entered the most holy of the spiritual temple, where all the anointed eventually join him.".

Vidqun

Yes, I agree. Jesus will always be the head (Eph. 5:23).

21 To the one that conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, even as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. (Rev. 3:21 NWT)

This is what Thayer's Lexicon says of the above, which makes sense:

To indicate that he has become a partner in God's universal government (cf. Knapp, De J. Chr. ad dextram dei sedente, in his Scripts var. arg., p. 41ff; (Stuart, Commentary on Hebrews, excurs. iv.)). That these expressions are to be understood in this figurative sense, and not of a fixed and definite place in the highest heavens (as Chr. From Fritzsche in Nov. Opuscc. acad., p. 209ff tries to prove, after the orthodox theologians of the reformed church), will be questioned by no one who carefully considers Rev. 3:21.

11

The G.B. are now going to be EQUAL with Christ in heaven!!!!

by BoogerMan in

they are not just going to be "joint kings and priests," oh no, because the latest washtowel is sneakily implying that they will be "joint kings and high priests.

october 2023 study watchtower p. 28, par.

13 - "after jesus was resurrected, he entered the most holy of the spiritual temple, where all the anointed eventually join him.".

Vidqun

Why are you looking at this thread then if you are so disinterested? Give it a break. Rather follow threads at your level and interest. Your comment adds nothing of value.

11

The G.B. are now going to be EQUAL with Christ in heaven!!!!

by BoogerMan in

they are not just going to be "joint kings and priests," oh no, because the latest washtowel is sneakily implying that they will be "joint kings and high priests.

october 2023 study watchtower p. 28, par.

13 - "after jesus was resurrected, he entered the most holy of the spiritual temple, where all the anointed eventually join him.".

Vidqun

October 2023 Study Watchtower p. 28, par. 13 - "After Jesus was resurrected, he entered the Most Holy of the spiritual temple, where all the anointed eventually join him."

I have news for them. There is not going to be a temple in heaven. When Revelation refers to the sanctuary in heaven, it points to a symbolic tabernacle (cf. Rev. 15:5). Funny. One would have thought that the anointed would know this:

22 And I did not see a temple in it, for Jehovah God the Almighty is its temple, also the Lamb [is].

23 And the city has no need of the sun nor of the moon to shine upon it, for the glory of God lighted it up, and its lamp was the Lamb. (Rev. 21:22, 23 NW)

It looks like the apostle Paul was wrong when he told Christians that they were God's spiritual temple.

Yes, BoogerMan, you’ve hit the nail on the head. This is the point. God’s people is going to make up God’s temple. This also explains why God orders the measuring of the temple as his property. His people will be kept safe through the tribulation period. However, the courtyard He allows to be trampled by the nations for three and a half years (Rev. 11:1, 2; cf. Rev. 7:14).

33

"How Long Would Jesus' Reign Be?"

by BoogerMan in

simple enough question for a jw to answer, because the org has told them for over 100 years that, .

a) jesus would reign for 1000 years, and.

b) that his reign began in 1914 when he became king.

Vidqun

Boogerman, I see you left Matt. 19:28 out. These sit on thrones. Who sits on a throne? See Rev. 3:21.

"and made them to our God kings and priests; and they shall reign over the earth." (Rev. 5:10 DBY).

"You made them into a kingdom for God to rule, cohanim to serve him; and they will rule over the earth" [lit. "on," καὶ βασιλεύσουσιν ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς]. (Rev. 5:10 GNT). (Rev. 5:10 CJB)

So who is right? See Rev. 9:11: "They have as king over them [lit. "on," ἔχουσιν ἐπ᾽ αὐτῶν βασιλέα] (NA28) the angel of the abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon."

According to the dictionaries and lexicons: ἐπὶ, marker of power, authority, control of or over someone or someth., over

a. w. gen. (Hdt. 5, 109 al.; Mitt-Wilck. I/1, 124, 1=BGU 1120, 1 [5 BC] πρωτάρχῳ ἐ. τοῦ κριτηρίου; 287, 1; LXX; AscIs 2:5 τοῦ ἐ. τῶν πραγματε[ι] ῶν=Denis p. 109) βασιλεύειν ἐ. τινος (Judg 9:8, 10; 1 Km 8:7) Rv 5:10. ἔχειν βασιλείαν ἐ. τῶν βασιλέων 17:18. ἐξουσίαν ἔχειν ἐ. τινος have power over someone 20:6. See BDAG.

Christians are referred to as kings in Rev 1:6 (v.l.); 5:10 (v.l.). e) Βασιλεύς is used for the king of the а ἄβυσσος in Rev 9:11. See EDNT.

As for βασιλεύω, I can't find any dictionary or lexicon backing you up. Yes it means "reign" (with a king in mind) • βασιλεύω fut. βασιλεύσω; 1 aor. ἐβασίλευσα; pf. 3 sg. βεβασίλευκεν 2 Km 5:10 (Hom.+) to exercise authority at a royal level, be king, rule (B-D-F §177; 233, 2; 234, 5; Rob.: 801, 833, 902). See BDAG.

βασιλεύω be king, rule w. gen. over or of something Mt 2:22; also w. ἐπί and gen. or acc. Lk 19:14, 27; Rv 5:10. Fig. Ro 5:14 . Of God and Christ Rv 11:15. In aor. (ingressive) become king Rv 11:17; 19:6. [pg 34] Gingrich Lex

βασιλεύω [βασιλεύς] be king, rule 1 Ti 6:15; w. simple gen. over/of Mt 2:22; also w. ἐπί and gen. Rv 5:10, or acc. Lk 1:33 . In imagery Ro 5:14; 5:21ab; 6:12. – In the aor. β. = become king 1 Cor 4:8; Rv 11:17; 19:6. DankerLex

Ordinary rule: ἄρχω, by a ruler: to rule or govern, w. implication of special status, rule act. w. gen. over someth. or someone.

ἄρχων: ruler. one who has eminence in a ruling capacity, ruler, lord, prince. See BDAG. Interestingly, Jesus is referred to as "ruler over the kings of the earth" in Rev. 1:9. At that stage he was not yet king.

But Boogerman, I do it my way and you do it your way. You can believe what you like and interpret the Scriptures in any way. Let me not stand in your way. As long as you are happy with what you believe.

33

"How Long Would Jesus' Reign Be?"

by BoogerMan in

simple enough question for a jw to answer, because the org has told them for over 100 years that, .

a) jesus would reign for 1000 years, and.

b) that his reign began in 1914 when he became king.

Vidqun

BoogerMan, this is where he got it from. It is indeed found in the Greek MSS. Jesus told his disciples they will sit on thrones. Note Peter talks of a "royal priesthood." You can check it in your translation(s) of the Bible.

28 Jesus said to them, Truly I say to YOU, In the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down upon his glorious throne, YOU who have followed me will also yourselves sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matt. 19:28)

9 But YOU are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that YOU should declare abroad the excellencies of the one that called YOU out of darkness into his wonderful light. (1 Pet. 2:9)

21 To the one that conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, even as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. (Rev. 3:21)

9 And they sing a new song, saying, You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth. (Rev. 5:9-10)

6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years. (Rev. 20:6 NW) [Cursive script added.]

33

"How Long Would Jesus' Reign Be?"

by BoogerMan in

simple enough question for a jw to answer, because the org has told them for over 100 years that, .

a) jesus would reign for 1000 years, and.

b) that his reign began in 1914 when he became king.

Vidqun

Fisherman, this is how I see and experience it. I don't see it as time but rather different levels of time. God created everything, so time as we know it would have started then. Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar: "He changes times and seasons, deposing some kings and establishing others. He gives wisdom to the wise; he imparts knowledge to those with understanding" (Dan. 2:21 NET). God can change times and seasons at will because He created them.

Time for us is absolute. That's all we know. For God it's relative, judged or measured by comparing it to different timelines and eternity. To understand His view of time one would need "clear thinking," as you say and help from His Spirit and Word. You mentioned the "creative" days. For us it would be a long time. For God six days have passed. We find ourselves in the seventh day, which is still ongoing. Lots must still happen. In that sense, Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. He will finalize what God has started (Gen. 2:3; Matt. 12:8; cf. Hebr. 3:11, 18; 4:1-11).

You mentioned Peter and God's patience. This made me think of Habakkuk. Also he could not understand God's patience until God reassured him: "Then Yahweh answered me and said, “Write the vision and make it plain on the tablet so that ⌊it might be read quickly⌋. a For there is yet a vision for the appointed time; it will give witness to the end, and it will not lie. If it tarries, wait for it, for it will surely come and not delay."

a. Literally “it might run reading upon it” [W. Hall Harris III et al., eds., The Lexham English Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012), Hab 2:2–3.]

33

"How Long Would Jesus' Reign Be?"

by BoogerMan in

simple enough question for a jw to answer, because the org has told them for over 100 years that, .

a) jesus would reign for 1000 years, and.

b) that his reign began in 1914 when he became king.

Vidqun

Fisherman, you missed this one. Peter did say it under inspiration. Don't overlook it. It's a fact: "But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." (2 Pet. 3:8 ESV)

Then there's these: "These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens." (Gen. 2:4 ESV)

"He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time." (Dan. 7:25; cf. 12:7 ESV) The learned tells us it means 3 1/2 years. No. He's definitely using a different time scale from what He gave us. But He doesn't leave us in the dark. He explains it quite nicely, so we can work it out.

Ex. "shortly:" Lot of scholars take it literally and apply Revelation exclusively to the first century. These view it as written ca. 70 CE. But for various reasons I believe in a late date for Revelation and view from Chapter 4 as future. A little of it can be applied to our immediate past. The rest must be future.

33

"How Long Would Jesus' Reign Be?"

by BoogerMan in

simple enough question for a jw to answer, because the org has told them for over 100 years that, .

a) jesus would reign for 1000 years, and.

b) that his reign began in 1914 when he became king.

Vidqun

Yes, God's time scale is different from ours. "Shortly" in Gr. τάχος, pert. to a relatively brief time subsequent to another point of time, ἐν τάχει as adverbial unit soon, in a short time Lk 18:8; Ro 16:20; 1 Ti 3:14; Rv 1:1; 22:6; shortly Ac 25:4 (BDAG).

After Jesus' advice to the seven congregations, a voice would invite John: "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this." (Rev. 4:1 ESV)

Accordig to Peter: "But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." (2 Pet. 3:8 ESV)

33

"How Long Would Jesus' Reign Be?"

by BoogerMan in

simple enough question for a jw to answer, because the org has told them for over 100 years that, .

a) jesus would reign for 1000 years, and.

b) that his reign began in 1914 when he became king.

Vidqun

Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever." (Rev. 11:15 ESV)

If the trumpet blasts and plagues make up the great tribulation, then he would become king in the middle of it. If the tribulation is seven years, each trumpet/plague would be 180 days, depending whether these are of equal length. His kingship of the earth would only be established after he subdues the earth, 'God making his enemies a stool for his feet,' thus after Armageddon.

42

JW current stance on Vaccines?

by lcarter017 in

it came to my attention that the covid-19 vaccine works by editing the genetic code of the mitochondrial dna, using gene therapy.. you should seriously question the moral implications of allowing a part of your dna to be modified.

does anyone have any concerns about this?if anyone has any questions, i can do my best to explain.

i personally find it very suspicious how they chose to word it, and conveniently inform us of this fact "after" people have taken the vaccine..

Vidqun

Sorry Joey, can't help you.