Posts by Osarsif

the 2 questions were posted: the initial questions were taken from the may 1, 1973 watchtower and then the changed questions were posted from the june 1, 1985 watchtower.

The new Edmond Gruss book

by betweenworlds in

jw
friends

has anyone out there read the book by edmond gruss entitled: jehovah's witnesses: their claims, doctrinal changes, and prophetic speculation.

what does the record show?

haven't read it and was wondering if it was worth picking up.. thanks!.

> Has anyone out there read the book by Edmond Gruss entitled:
> Jehovah's Witnesses: Their Claims, Doctrinal Changes, and
> Prophetic Speculation. What Does the Record Show? Haven't read
> it and was wondering if it was worth picking up.

I'm presently reading that book and think it is quite good.

12

"Watchtower Evil" (depictions by Tally)

by sf in

jw
friends

< http://www.intrex.net/tallyman/wt_evil.html.

skally.

wcrestnpeace

Osarsif

Thanks sf. Tallyman should also include this from w97 9/1 23 and rq 11:

22

JW statistics 2001 -- www.jwic.com/stat.htm

by Osarsif in

jw
friends

jw statistics 2001:.

http://www.jwic.com/stat.htm.

Osarsif

Hi larc. I only have data from 1946 onward:

1946: 24.0%
1947: 14.6%
1948: 27.3%
1949: 21.2%
1950: 17.6%
1951: 17.1%
1952: 10.9%
1953: 9.7%
1954: 12.4%
1955: 8.5%
1956: 3.7%
1957: 10.4%
1958: 9.8%
1959: 12.0%
1960: 6.0%
1961: 3.9%
1962: 4.1%
1963: 3.9%
1964: 4.7%
1965: 3.2%
1966: 2.4%
1967: 3.4%
1968: 5.6%
1969: 8.7%
1970: 10.2%
1971: 9.1%
1972: 5.7%
1973: 3.8%
1974: 13.5%
1975: 9.7%
1976: 3.7%
1977: -1 %
1978: -1.4%
1979: 0.5%
1980: 3.7%
1981: 3.3%
1982: 4.2%
1983: 6.8%
1984: 7.2%
1985: 6.4%
1986: 6.8%
1987: 5.7%
1988: 6 %
1989: 5.6%
1990: 6.1%
1991: 6.5%
1992: 5.3%
1993: 4.5%
1994: 5 %
1995: 5 %
1996: 4.4%
1997: 3.6%
1998: 3.6%
1999: 2 %
2000: 2.3%
2001: 1.7%

7

Book: JW & Nazi-Regime

by Osarsif in

jw
friends

book by detlef garbe, pellechia and 22 other persons (some of them jehovah's witnesses):.

more at: http://www.edition-temmen.com.

from the foreword (quoting others):"time and again, jehovah's witnesses were the most courageous.

Osarsif

alliwannadoislive wrote:

> i feel a bit 'dirty' having just read this post - i think it's
> inappropriate to make cheap sensationalist reading out of such a
> tragic situation

I did not make "cheap sensationalist reading" out of the situation.

> - the people that gave their lives for these policies are not
> worthy of the implied scorn:
>
> 10% of the Jehovah's Witnesses in the concentration camps and up to
> 50% in prisons signed the declaration. Remember those numbers the
> next time Jehovah's Witnesses brag they were "the most courageous".

I did not scorn of the people who died.

> really - could you say that you would have been in the faithful
> 90% ? which - lets face it - is one hell of a high percentage ?

The 90% are not 90% of all JW's living in Germany at the time. It's 90% of the JW's who were in the camps. Before they got there, half of the JW's who were arrested had signed the declaration. So the percentage is much lower. It is lower than 50%.

JW's who went to the camps = 2,000
JW's who remained faithful in the camps = 1,800
Total number of JW's in Germany = 25,000 (acording to the book)
1,800/25,000 = 7.2%

7.2% does not seem to be "one hell of a high percentage", especially if you consider that they knew they would be sent to the front line of the battle (where almost certainly they would be killed by the Russians or Americans) as soon as they signed the declaration.

> the disgust should be aimed at the political regime that committed
> these atrocities - but also for the religious organisation that
> totally betrayed their followers and sent them to their deaths

I don't see much of a difference between the religious organization and the followers, and I am not aiming "disgust" at anyone. I'm just saying these numbers show a different picture from the bragging I've seen in many Jehovah's Witnesses' publications.

26

FCCC/League on Nations/UN/Watchtower/Rare Article

by hawkaw in

i noticed we have been dealing a lot with united nations issues.

so i thought i would share something that doesnt seem to be found anywhere with respect to the united nations or its predecessor the league of nations and the watchtower.. since september 1919 at cedar point, j.f.

rutherford (past president) and the watchtower have condemned the league of nations and now the united nations.

Osarsif

hawkaw,

> Are you interested in posting them on your site with the actual
> photcopies in a PDF file and the essay in a word file?

Yes, I'm interested, please email them to me.

Instead of PDF, I think I can transform them to jpg, and instead of word file, we can transform it to html (I think it won't be a problem).

26

FCCC/League on Nations/UN/Watchtower/Rare Article

by hawkaw in

i noticed we have been dealing a lot with united nations issues.

so i thought i would share something that doesnt seem to be found anywhere with respect to the united nations or its predecessor the league of nations and the watchtower.. since september 1919 at cedar point, j.f.

rutherford (past president) and the watchtower have condemned the league of nations and now the united nations.

Osarsif

OhHappyDay asked:

> quotes wich where missused in the blood-pamphlet?
> Where can I read about???

Some of the threads are:

WTS Blood Issue Deception on Louis XI plus Pliny
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=8964

Tertullian & June 15/00 WT on Blood
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=7271

GB Admits It Has No Answers, Blood
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=9056

7

Book: JW & Nazi-Regime

by Osarsif in

jw
friends

book by detlef garbe, pellechia and 22 other persons (some of them jehovah's witnesses):.

more at: http://www.edition-temmen.com.

from the foreword (quoting others):"time and again, jehovah's witnesses were the most courageous.

Osarsif

Book by Detlef Garbe, Pellechia and 22 other persons (some of them Jehovah's Witnesses):

More at: http://www.edition-temmen.com

From the Foreword (quoting others):

"Time and again, Jehovah's Witnesses were the most courageous." [...] "no Christian community can stand even the slightest comparison with the number of their matyrs." [...] About 1,200 died or were killed [...] The contributions in Part B of this anthology focus on the controversies about the documentary video "Stand Firm Against Nazi Assault" produced by the Watch Tower Society and shown at many symposia and exhibitions and the attendant reservations expressed by public officials and other critics.

From the Time table:

June 25, 1933 Mass rally in Berlin-Wilmersdorf by invitation of the Magdeburg headquarters, attended by ca. 7,000 Jehovah's Witnesses. Passed »Declaration« to invalidate accusations against the association, and reveals leadership attempts at reaching an agreement with the new rulers in Germany. This course fails.

Waw!

More from the Time table page:

Dec. 20, 1937 In Moringen concentration camp for women, a »declaration« is introduced only for Jehovah's Witnesses. After 1935 »declarations« were used in concentration camps as well as in prisons. After 1937, this is institutionalized by imposing subsequent detention (Nachhaft = protective custody arrest after completing a prison sentence) if the declaration is not signed. Before the war, this »declaration« was ostensibly signed more frequently. Estimates are that about 10 percent of Witnesses incarcerated in concentration camps signed and up to 50 percent in prisons. On December 21, 1937, this »declaration« is standardized on Himmler's orders. It states: »Declaration. I have come to know that the International Bible Students Association is proclaiming erroneous teachings and under the cloak of religion follows hostile purposes against the State. I therefore left the organization entirely and made myself absolutely free from the teachings of this sect. I herewith give assurance that I will never again take any part in the activity of the International Bible Students Association. Any persons approaching me with the teachings of the Bible Students, or who in any manner reveal their connections with them, I will denounce immediately. All literature from the Bible Students that should be sent to my address I will at once deliver to the nearest police station. I will in the future esteem the laws of the State and join in every way the community of the people. I have been informed that I will at once be taken again into protective custody if I should act against the declaration given today.«

10% of the Jehovah's Witnesses in the concentration camps and up to 50% in prisons signed the declaration. Remember those numbers the next time Jehovah's Witnesses brag they were "the most courageous".

More about this book at the Watchtower Observer: http://observer.org/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20010828&Category=JWANDHITLER3&ArtNo=10828006