I_love_Jeff

Joined

• started 129 topics
• posted 328 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by I_love_Jeff

• 
  50

  If solid proof were suddenly found that the Book of Enoch should be included in the standard Bible, would that pose a problem for the Jehovah's Witnesses in regards to Michael the Archangel as Jesus?

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  if the book of enoch (elaborates and gives mention to 6 more archangels) suddenly became part of the bible due to solid evidence, how would this effect the shakey jw doctrine of michael the archangel as being jesus?

  there are six other archangels mentioned in this book; could it be possible, if included in the jw bible, that one of the other archangels could be jesus?

  would they excuse it somehow and simply stick with their implicit understanding of jesus=michael?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  I_love_Jeff

  If the Book of Enoch (elaborates and gives mention to 6 more Archangels) suddenly became part of the Bible due to solid evidence, how would this effect the shakey JW doctrine of Michael the Archangel as being Jesus? There are six other Archangels mentioned in this book; could it be possible, if included in the JW bible, that one of the other archangels could be Jesus? Would they excuse it somehow and simply stick with their implicit understanding of Jesus=Michael?

  (Daniel 10:13 describes Michael as "one of the chief princes." This possibly indicates that there is more than one archangel, because it places Michael on the same level as the other "chief princes.")

  Jehovah's Witnesses state, "Well, the prefix "arch," meaning "chief" or "principal," implies that there is only one archangel."

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/85223/1/Jude-and-1-Enoch

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/229824/1/Daniel-10-13-Michael-one-of-the-chief-princes
• 
  14

  Daniel 10:13 "....Michael one of the chief princes."

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  daniel 10:13 describes michael as "one of the chief princes.

  " this possibly indicates that there is more than one archangel, because it places michael on the same level as the other "chief princes.

  jehovah's witnesses state, "well, the prefix "arch," meaning "chief" or "principal," implies that there is only one archangel.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  I_love_Jeff

  It makes we wonder why "The Book of Enoch" was not included in the Bible. Yes there are contradictions BUT some passages mentioned in Jude are from the Book of Enoch! Once again, this would pose a problem (re:the archangels) for the Jehovah's Witnesses if the book were included in the NWT.

  http://www.realdevil.info/dig1.htm

  Jude passages compared to Book Of Enoch passages

  "Enoch the Seventh from Adam prophesied" Jude 14, Enoch 60:8

  "dry springs" Jude 12, Enoch 48:1,96:6 dried up fountains

  "waterless clouds" Jude 12 (Enoch 18:5,41:4-5,100:11-12)

  "reserved for blackest darkness" Jude 13 (Enoch 21:3 "darkness shall be their dwelling" Enoch 46:6)

  "trees without fruit" Jude 12 (Enoch 80:3)

  "plucked up" Jude 13 (Enoch 83:4)

  "raging waves" Jude 12 (Enoch 101:3-5)
• 
  14

  Daniel 10:13 "....Michael one of the chief princes."

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  daniel 10:13 describes michael as "one of the chief princes.

  " this possibly indicates that there is more than one archangel, because it places michael on the same level as the other "chief princes.

  jehovah's witnesses state, "well, the prefix "arch," meaning "chief" or "principal," implies that there is only one archangel.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  I_love_Jeff

  Leolaia and pseudo I plan on using your notes for my next YA question. Would you mind if I quoted some of your material? Incredible responses from you both!! Much appreciated!!!
• 
  14

  Daniel 10:13 "....Michael one of the chief princes."

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  daniel 10:13 describes michael as "one of the chief princes.

  " this possibly indicates that there is more than one archangel, because it places michael on the same level as the other "chief princes.

  jehovah's witnesses state, "well, the prefix "arch," meaning "chief" or "principal," implies that there is only one archangel.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  I_love_Jeff

  The Book of Enoch, if someday included in their NWT, would definitly pose a problem for the Jehovah's Witnesses since it does discuss seven Archangels- Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, Raguel, Uriel, Saraqael, and Remiel.

  Here is the Michael formula "one of the chief princes." + not the only Archangel=not necessarily the messiah.
• 
  14

  Daniel 10:13 "....Michael one of the chief princes."

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  daniel 10:13 describes michael as "one of the chief princes.

  " this possibly indicates that there is more than one archangel, because it places michael on the same level as the other "chief princes.

  jehovah's witnesses state, "well, the prefix "arch," meaning "chief" or "principal," implies that there is only one archangel.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  I_love_Jeff

  Interesting point pseudoxristos
• 
  14

  Daniel 10:13 "....Michael one of the chief princes."

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  daniel 10:13 describes michael as "one of the chief princes.

  " this possibly indicates that there is more than one archangel, because it places michael on the same level as the other "chief princes.

  jehovah's witnesses state, "well, the prefix "arch," meaning "chief" or "principal," implies that there is only one archangel.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  I_love_Jeff

  Daniel 10:13 describes Michael as "one of the chief princes." This possibly indicates that there is more than one archangel, because it places Michael on the same level as the other "chief princes."

  Jehovah's Witnesses state, "Well, the prefix "arch," meaning "chief" or "principal," implies that there is only one archangel." Yes it does IMPLY that there is one archangel, but did they overlook Daniel 10:13 giving reference to more than one archangel among the angels?
• 
  13

  Did Jesus insult the Pharisees?

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this question not only aplies to jehovah's witnesses but to christians as well.

  any one have a clear answer for me?

  did jesus revile?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  I_love_Jeff

  Thank you Leolaia, Band on the Run, TD, King Solomon.

  Leolaia quoted-"Jesus is portrayed particularly by Matthew as a Torah-observant reformer critical of the practices of the Pharisees while recognizing their halakhic authority".

  So it really comes down to constructive critisism. I suppose this was normal practice of criticising one another among the Christian Jews and the Pharisees. With all the info you have given Leolaia, I thank you.
• 
  13

  Did Jesus insult the Pharisees?

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this question not only aplies to jehovah's witnesses but to christians as well.

  any one have a clear answer for me?

  did jesus revile?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  I_love_Jeff

  Two conclusions to consider why Jesus spoke out the way he did:

  1) "...tension between Jews and Christians, and, even, Jewish and Gentile Christians".

  2) Constructive critisism

  Thank you soooo much for all your responses. Cheers. Thank you Band on the Run.
• 
  13

  Did Jesus insult the Pharisees?

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this question not only aplies to jehovah's witnesses but to christians as well.

  any one have a clear answer for me?

  did jesus revile?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  I_love_Jeff

  Correction 1 Peter 2:23

  Also, one other note to add: Since the Jehovah's Witnesses state the apostles made mistakes when trying to cover up their (JWs) wishy washy doctrine, could it be possible that Peter made a mistake in the passage I am referring to above?
• 
  13

  Did Jesus insult the Pharisees?

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this question not only aplies to jehovah's witnesses but to christians as well.

  any one have a clear answer for me?

  did jesus revile?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  I_love_Jeff

  This question not only aplies to Jehovah's Witnesses but to Christians as well. Any one have a clear answer for me? Did Jesus revile? What about 1 Peter 2:22? Did someone make a mistake? If someone said these harsh words to me, I would take them as insults. Wouldn't you? Are insults in the Bible called something else like constructive criticism?

  The Bible:

  "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the
  kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor
  allow those who would enter to go in."
  
  "You blind men..."
  
  "...straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!"
  
  "...full of extortion and rapacity."
  
  "...you appear righteous to men but within you are full of hypocrisy
  and iniquity."
  
  "You serpents, you brood of vipers..."
  
  "Blind guides..."
  "...how are you to escape being sentenced to hell."
  
  Jehovah's Witness Elder's Manual- Reviling means "subjecting a person to insulting speech and heaping abuse upon him". This is something that is outlined in your official rulebook Elder's manual.
  
  To JWs: Reviling is wrong is it not? According to the JW's rule book + 1Pe 2:22-"...he did not go reviling in return", Jesus would be accused of insulting the Pharisees, would he not? Would you be insulted if an apostate said these words to you?
  
  Here is something a JW said in a previous question we posted on yahoo answers: "Like Jesus and many followers did, it's a matter if it's deserved or not"
  
  So it's okay to insult others if it's done righteously? Some JWs say "If it's deserved, then it's okay". Interesting.