"Abraham had come out of Ur of the Chaldeans, and he did not want that city any more. He and his son Isaac and grandson Jacob wanted a better place, that is, one belonging to heaven, a city government, namely, the government or city that God has prepared and in which the promised Seed or Offspring of Abraham will be God’s King. This is the “kingdom of God,” or “the kingdom of the heavens,” as these two expressions are interchangeable, the expression “the heavens” having reference to God. Under that kingdom of the heavens or kingdom of God Abraham, Isaac and Jacob expected to live on earth". (Watchtower 3/15/1962 Questions From the Readers)
I also checked the Kingdom Interlinear Bible Hebrews 11:8-19. Not able to able find any information on "city government" in those verses. What do you guys think?
I_love_Jeff
JoinedPosts by I_love_Jeff
-
5
How do the Jehivah's Witnesses get "city government" out of "heavenly city"?
by I_love_Jeff in"abraham had come out of ur of the chaldeans, and he did not want that city any more.
he and his son isaac and grandson jacob wanted a better place, that is, one belonging to heaven, a city government, namely, the government or city that god has prepared and in which the promised seed or offspring of abraham will be gods king.
this is the kingdom of god, or the kingdom of the heavens, as these two expressions are interchangeable, the expression the heavens having reference to god.
-
-
I_love_Jeff
-
10
Jehovah's Witnesses: If the 144,000 were not defiled by women, does that not make them ALL men?
by I_love_Jeff inand unmarried, of course, since they are all virgins?.
since you are taking this all literally, perhaps you need to re-read the verses carefully.
if parts of this verse are to be taken figuratively then how do you determine the number, 144,000 to be literal?.
-
-
I_love_Jeff
I posted this question on Yahoo Answers by the way. This is meant for Jehovah's Witnesses and Ex Witnesses on here : )
-
10
Jehovah's Witnesses: If the 144,000 were not defiled by women, does that not make them ALL men?
by I_love_Jeff inand unmarried, of course, since they are all virgins?.
since you are taking this all literally, perhaps you need to re-read the verses carefully.
if parts of this verse are to be taken figuratively then how do you determine the number, 144,000 to be literal?.
-
-
I_love_Jeff
and unmarried, of course, since they are all virgins?
Since you are taking this all literally, perhaps you need to re-read the verses carefully.If parts of this verse are to be taken figuratively then how do you determine the number, 144,000 to be literal?
Women=symbolic for government
144,000=real number of MEN (anointed) who will be in Heaven
How do the Jehovah's Witnesses determine which is real and which is symbolic? Strange reasoning indeed. -
6
So 144,000 will go to Heaven? Is this to be taken literally even though......
by I_love_Jeff inwe have something within their own literature stating otherwise?.
"apocalypse, or revelation, is the name of the last book in the bible, written toward the end of the first century c.e.
in view of the prophetic nature and highly symbolic language of this book, the adjective apocalyptic came to be applied to a form of literature that began long before the bible book of revelation was written.
-
-
I_love_Jeff
Where is the latest correction for this particular subject matter? I was not able to find it in the Watchtower Library 2012.
-
6
So 144,000 will go to Heaven? Is this to be taken literally even though......
by I_love_Jeff inwe have something within their own literature stating otherwise?.
"apocalypse, or revelation, is the name of the last book in the bible, written toward the end of the first century c.e.
in view of the prophetic nature and highly symbolic language of this book, the adjective apocalyptic came to be applied to a form of literature that began long before the bible book of revelation was written.
-
-
I_love_Jeff
How is it old light?
-
6
So 144,000 will go to Heaven? Is this to be taken literally even though......
by I_love_Jeff inwe have something within their own literature stating otherwise?.
"apocalypse, or revelation, is the name of the last book in the bible, written toward the end of the first century c.e.
in view of the prophetic nature and highly symbolic language of this book, the adjective apocalyptic came to be applied to a form of literature that began long before the bible book of revelation was written.
-
-
I_love_Jeff
we have something within their own literature stating otherwise?
"Apocalypse, or Revelation, is the name of the last book in the Bible, written toward the end of the first century C.E. In view of the prophetic nature and highly SYMBOLIC language of this book, the adjective “apocalyptic” came to be applied to a form of literature that began long before the Bible book of Revelation was written. The mythological SYMBOLISM of this literature goes back to ancient Persia and even beyond."
Watchtower Magazine 12/1/1999 page 4 : ) -
19
Was the New World Bible Translation Committee pressed for time?
by I_love_Jeff in....when they did not include a translation of the hebrew scriptures in your special kingdom interlinear bible?
perhaps it is easier to manipulate the new testament to fit with their twisted jw teachings?.
.
-
-
I_love_Jeff
CORRECTION....when they did not include a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures in THEIR (NOT YOUR) special Kingdom Interlinear Bible?
-
19
Was the New World Bible Translation Committee pressed for time?
by I_love_Jeff in....when they did not include a translation of the hebrew scriptures in your special kingdom interlinear bible?
perhaps it is easier to manipulate the new testament to fit with their twisted jw teachings?.
.
-
-
I_love_Jeff
....when they did not include a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures in your special Kingdom Interlinear Bible?
Perhaps it is easier to manipulate the New Testament to fit with their twisted JW teachings?
-
3
Why do the Jehovah's Witnesses focus on one meaning of the word "brother" in Matthew 18:15-17 when in fact it has multiple meanings
by I_love_Jeff in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><![endif].
[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-us</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:enableopentypekerning /> <w:dontflipmirrorindents /> <w:overridetablestylehps /> </w:compatibility> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="--" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!
[endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:8.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:107%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif].
-
-
I_love_Jeff
Jehovah's Witnesses often use this passage to prove to others that your SPIRITUAL brother is to be shunned if he does not listen to you. If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Source: Matthew 18:15-17 If the term brother has multiple meanings (like this one-"those united in a general cause and having similar aims and purposes") then why do the Jehovah's Witnesses only choose one meaning (SPIRITUAL BROTHER) to the verse mentioned above that is, in the Christian congregation members enjoy a common spiritual relationship analogous to that of brothers.
Insight Volume 1 pg 369
“Brother” is also applied to those united in a general cause and having similar aims and purposes. For example, King Hiram of Tyre called King Solomon his brother, not simply because he was an equal in rank and position but also perhaps because of mutual interests in supplying timbers and other things for the temple. (1Ki 9:13; 5:1-12) “Look! How good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity!” David wrote, implying that it is not blood relations alone that make for peace and unity between fleshly brothers. (Ps 133:1) In fact, mutual affection and interest, not common parentage, prompted David to call Jonathan his brother. (2Sa 1:26) Companions having similar natures and dispositions, even when such are bad, are properly called brothers.—Pr 18:9.
In Matthew 18:21 Then Peter came up and said to him: “Lord, how many times is my brother to sin against me and am I to forgive him? Up to seven times?” 22 Jesus said to him: “I say to you, not, Up to seven times, but, Up to seventy-seven times.
Seventy-seven, a repetition of seven in a number, was equivalent to saying “indefinitely” or “without limit.” Jesus counsels Christians to forgive their brothers to that extent. (Mt 18:21, 22)
So if Jesus says to forgive seventy-seven times meaning indefinitly and the word "brother" (Hebrew, 'ach, and in Greek, a·del·phos) knowing it has multiple meanings, does that change the whole context of NOT shunning your NON SPIRITUAL brother and forgiving him indefinitly? Again, brother has multiple meanings one being, in this example "those united in a general cause and having similar aims and purposes" BUT not necessarily having a spiritual connection.
My point is: Shouldn't this just mean that we are to forgive anyone (brother-mankind) who goes against us and not just your spiritual brother?
-
7
Why does the Watchtower material not capitalize the pronouns in reference to Jehovah
by I_love_Jeff in"koine greek was the language used by writers of the old testament greek septuagint and the greek new testament.
the original greek new testament was written in all capital letters, without spaces, punctuation, accents or diacritical marks.".
http://biblescripture.net/greek.html.
-
-
I_love_Jeff
Even though the Watchtower Society recognized that original Greek text contained uncials, they went against all the rules of original Greek and used capital and lowercase within their version of say for example John 1:1 in support of their anti-Trinitarian teachings.