Does forever mean forever?

by I_love_Jeff in

1 chronicles 28:9 "and you, my son solomon, acknowledge the god of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the lord searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought.

if you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

is the word "forever" literal or figurative?

I_love_Jeff

"If we translate the Greek word aionios either by everlasting or by age-lasting we meet with inconsistencies and contradictions. If we trace it back to its roots in the Hebrew word olam, pointing us to the unseen, timeless realm of God the Scriptures take on new and consistent meaning.

Everything described by the word aionios or aeonian is rooted in the timeless nature of God. Everything aeonian relates to him. Aeonian life and aeonian fire are aeonian because they are part of the nature of God, who is from everlasting to everlasting, from olam to olam. These things exist for the whole of human time, and they go beyond into the timeless and invisible realm of the spirit. They go beyond the comprehension of our time-limited minds and belong to the timeless and spiritual realm of God"

http://www.growthingod.org.uk/aeonian-realm.htm

22

Does forever mean forever?

by I_love_Jeff in

1 chronicles 28:9 "and you, my son solomon, acknowledge the god of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the lord searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought.

if you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

is the word "forever" literal or figurative?

I_love_Jeff

Of course we must view the context, a rule of exegesis, to determine when it is being used in some sense as truly forever such as-ISAIAH 9:6- "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

When the term is used to describe a very powerful being such as Jehovah the "Everlasting Father" then we must view it in a literal sense.

The context says it all. When understood from an ancient Hebrew viewpoint, the passages used (containing "forever" and "Earth) by Jehovah's Witnesses to prove a restored Earth throws a wrench into their structured doctrine.

22

Does forever mean forever?

by I_love_Jeff in

1 chronicles 28:9 "and you, my son solomon, acknowledge the god of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the lord searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought.

if you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

is the word "forever" literal or figurative?

I_love_Jeff

Forever (olam) has been arbitrarily interpreted by many to fit whatever it is that they want to believe as to how long something lasts. Sound familiar????

22

Does forever mean forever?

by I_love_Jeff in

1 chronicles 28:9 "and you, my son solomon, acknowledge the god of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the lord searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought.

if you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

is the word "forever" literal or figurative?

I_love_Jeff

You are welcome, Magnum

The idea that olam did not always mean "eternity", but rather a limited period of time, is found in a number of Medieval Jewish writings. See Rambam, Moreh Nevuchim 2:28, and Albo, Sefer HaIkkarim, 3:16.

22

Does forever mean forever?

by I_love_Jeff in

1 chronicles 28:9 "and you, my son solomon, acknowledge the god of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the lord searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought.

if you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

is the word "forever" literal or figurative?

I_love_Jeff

Just to let everyone know in case you are curious about the previous question regarding Paradise Earth, I am almost finished with my notes and plan on posting them soon.

22

Does forever mean forever?

by I_love_Jeff in

1 chronicles 28:9 "and you, my son solomon, acknowledge the god of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the lord searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought.

if you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

is the word "forever" literal or figurative?

I_love_Jeff

"In the ancient Hebrew words that are used to described distance and direction are also used to describe time. The Hebrew word for east is qedem and literally means "the direction of the rising sun". We use north as our major orientation such as in maps which are always oriented to the north. While we use the north as our major direction the Hebrews used the east and all directions are oriented to this direction. For example one of the words for south is teyman from the root yaman meaning "to the right". The word qedem is also the word for the past. In the ancient Hebrew mind the past is in front of you while the future is behind you, the opposite way we think of the past and future. The Hebrew word olam means in the far distance. When looking off in the far distance it is difficult to make out any details and what is beyond that horizon cannot be seen. This concept is the olam. The word olam is also used for time for the distant past or the distant future as a time that is difficult to know or perceive. This word is frequently translated as eternity or forever but in the English language it is misunderstood to mean a continual span of time that never ends. In the Hebrew mind it is simply what is at or beyond the horizon, a very distant time. A common phrase in the Hebrew is "l'olam va'ed" and is usually translated as "forever and ever" but in the Hebrew it means "to the distant horizon and again" meaning "a very distant time and even further" and is used to express the idea of a very ancient or future time. "
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/27_eternity.html

AHLB# 2544 (g)

22

Does forever mean forever?

by I_love_Jeff in

1 chronicles 28:9 "and you, my son solomon, acknowledge the god of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the lord searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought.

if you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

is the word "forever" literal or figurative?

I_love_Jeff

1 Chronicles 28:9
"And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

Is the word "forever" literal or figurative? MISTRANSLATION?????

If "one of Jehovah's Witnesses" rejects Jehovah and then comes back to "the Truth", will Jehovah forgive him?

King David seems to think he will not forgive the repentant ones.

"It is unfortunate that many English bible-versions translate olam with such phrases as “for ever” or “everlasting”. That has led to many misunderstandings. Even the words “permanent”, “perpetual” and “age-enduring” that some bible-translators have used, are misleading. It is clear that olam merely meant “long-lasting” or “for a long time”. And, when it was used of past events or past time, the meaning was something like “since the days of old”.

As the NAS Hebrew dictionary defines it, “long duration, antiquity, futurity”. That is not the same as “for ever”. Consider this: Many or perhaps most of the things which are mentioned in passages where the Old Testament Hebrew text has the word olam, have come to their end, a long time ago."
http://www.biblepages.net/hn13.htm

If it were a mistranslation and/or meant to be figurative, how THEN would the term "forever" effect the Watchtower's understanding of the restored earth/Paradise Earth doctrine?

3

Which writer explicitly discusses a Paradise on Earth, John Milton or Jehovah?

by I_love_Jeff in

a jehovah's witness states: ".

"next, the poetic promises regarding the earths eternality are confirmed as literal by christs own words: at mt.

5:5 christ adopted the words of ps.37 clearly showing that the promise of an eternal earth held true.

I_love_Jeff

Which Author explicitly discusses a Paradise on Earth, John Milton or Jehovah?

3

Which writer explicitly discusses a Paradise on Earth, John Milton or Jehovah?

by I_love_Jeff in

a jehovah's witness states: ".

"next, the poetic promises regarding the earths eternality are confirmed as literal by christs own words: at mt.

5:5 christ adopted the words of ps.37 clearly showing that the promise of an eternal earth held true.

I_love_Jeff

A Jehovah's Witness states: "

"Next, the “poetic” promises regarding the earths eternality are confirmed as literal by Christ’s own words: At Mt. 5:5
Christ adopted the words of Ps.37 clearly showing that the promise of an eternal earth held true. I don’t see even a hint of symbolism in Christ’s words! Christ explicitly stated that God’s will for the earth would certainly come about just as it would in heaven (Mt.6:9,10; Isa.55:10,11. c.f., Mt 19:28; Eph.1:10; Rm. 8:21)."

Do any of these verses, listed by this JW, explicitly state a "Paradise on Earth"????

Watchtower - John Milton

11/15/2003 pg. 3

"The 17th-century English poet John Milton had no such pessimistic thoughts. In his epic poem Paradise Lost, he wrote that God created the earth to be a paradise home for the human family. That original Paradise was lost. However, Milton believed that it would be restored—that a redeemer in the person of Jesus Christ would one day “reward his faithful, and receive them into bliss . . . in Heaven or Earth.” Milton confidently declared: “For then the Earth shall all be Paradise.”"

15

Why is Paradise Earth to be taken literally?

by I_love_Jeff in

why do the jehovah's witnesses feel that paradise earth is a literal place?.

i posted this question in yahoo answers if anyone is interested: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20150125163818aatmbtr.

why believe poetic promised land prophecy is to be taken literally, but scriptures saying the earth will end must be taken figuratively?

I_love_Jeff

Thus far I have come up with this info which is very crucial when it comes to the rules of exegesis.

"2. The Literal Principle. We assume that each word in a passage has a normal, literal meaning, unless there is good reason to view it as a figure of speech. The exegete does not go out of his way to spiritualize or allegorize. Words mean what words mean.

So, if the Bible mentions a “horse,” it means “a horse.” When the Bible speaks of the Promised Land, it means a literal land given to Israel and should not be interpreted as a reference to heaven.

4. The Synthesis Principle. The best interpreter of scripture is scripture itself. We must examine a passage in relation to its immediate context (the verses surrounding it), its wider context (the book it’s found in), and its complete context (the Bible as a whole). The Bible does not contradict itself. Any theological statement in one verse can and should be harmonized with theological statements in other parts of scripture. Good Bible interpretation relates any one passage to the total content of scripture."

With these two rules in mind, how do the scriptures explicitly show that there will be a literal Paradise Earth indefinitely?

I_love_Jeff

Posts by I_love_Jeff

Which Author explicitly discusses a Paradise on Earth, John Milton or Jehovah?