I_love_Jeff

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Posts by I_love_Jeff

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  3

  Are the "angels of God", and "sons of Israel" the same thing?

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  just recently i posted a question on yahoo answers and asked a simple question to the jehovah's witnesses about the "sons of israel" and "sons of god".here is the question: .

  are the "angels of god", and "sons of israel" the same thing?

  if you apply the same translation (angels of god) in deuteronomy 32:43 to deuteronomy 32:8 we have this: when the most high divided the nations, when he separated the sons of adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of god.

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  I_love_Jeff

  Just recently I posted a question on Yahoo answers and asked a simple question to the Jehovah's Witnesses about the "sons of Israel" and "sons of God".Here is the question:
  

  Are the "angels of God", and "sons of Israel" the same thing?

  Why did the Watchtower Library 2012 translate Deut 32:43 using the LXX Bagster BUT did not use the same translation for Deut 32:8?
  
  If you apply the same translation (angels of God) in Deuteronomy 32:43 to Deuteronomy 32:8 we have this: When the Most High divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of God." (See Bagster LXX Online)
  
  Deut 32:8-Bagster LXX-ὅτε διεμέριζεν ὁ ὕψιστος ἔθνη ὡς διέσπειρεν υἱοὺς Αδαμ ἔστησεν ὅρια ἐθνῶν κατὰ ἀριθμὸν ἀγγέλων θεοῦ (angels of God)
  
  *See Watchtower Library 2012*
  (Deuteronomy 32:43) Be glad, YOU nations, with his people,*m (you have an asterisk and an "m") For he will avenge the blood of his servants, And he will pay back vengeance to his adversaries And will indeed make atonement for the ground of his people.”
  
  (See Watchtower Library 2012)-Citation-m*“Be glad, O heavens, together with him, and let all the

  angels of God (ἄγγελοι Θεοῦ-angels of God) worship him. Be glad, you nations, with his people, and let all the sons of God strengthen themselves in him,” LXXBagster. Compare Heb 1:6.
  
  Deut 32:43 εὐφράνθητε, οὐρανοί, ἅμα αὐτῷ, καὶ προσκυνησάτωσαν αὐτῷ πάντες ἄγγελοι Θεοῦ (angels of God)· εὐφράνθητε, ἔθνη μετὰ τοῦ λαοῦ αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἐνισχυσάτωσαν αὐτῷ πάντες υἱοὶ Θεοῦ· ὅτι τὸ αἷμα τῶν υἱῶν αὐτοῦ ἐκδικᾶται, καὶ ἐκδικήσει καὶ ἀνταποδώσει δίκην τοῖς ἐχθροῖς καὶ τοῖς μισοῦσιν ἀνταποδώσει, καὶ ἐκκαθαριεῖ Κύριος τὴν γῆν τοῦ λαοῦ αὐτοῦ.

  
  

  
  

  
  
• 

  Where is the Divine Assembly?

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  where is the divine assembly mentioned in psalm 82?

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq_phnl1b_o.

  in an interview by your favorite radio station (lol) watchtower of babel, we ask dr. heiser (starts at 50:47 see link above) about the parallel passages: psalm 82 (divine council-sons of god) and psalm 89:5-7 [6-8] (sons of the most high) : .

• 

  I_love_Jeff

  Where is the Divine Assembly mentioned in Psalm 82?

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq_PHNL1B_o
  

  In an interview by your favorite radio station (lol) Watchtower of Babel, we ask Dr. Heiser (starts at 50:47 see link above) about the parallel passages: Psalm 82 (Divine Council-Sons of God) and Psalm 89:5-7 [6-8] (Sons of the Most High) :
  

  “Psalm 82:1 is perhaps the best example, as it employs the expression ʿdt ʾil(m)(Divine Council) (Hebrew: ףֲדַת־אֵל ) for the council, along with a transparent reference to gods under the authority of Israel's God: ‚God (אֱלֹהִים ) stands in the council of El/the divine council (ףֲדַת־אֵל ); among the gods (אֱלֹהִים ) he passes judgment.‛ The second occurrence of אֱלֹהִים (gods) must be semantically plural due to the preposition ‚in the midst of.‛ (Deut 32:8-9 (LXX, DSS). A parallel passage, Psalm 89:5-7 [6-8], places the God of Israel ‚in the assembly of the holy ones‛ (בִקְהַל קְדֹשִים ) and then asks ‚ [FOR WHO IN THE CLOUDS] (בַשַחַק ) can be compared to Yahweh? Who is like Yahweh among the sons of God (בְנֵי אֵלִים ), a god greatly feared in the council of the holy ones (בְסוֹד־קְדֹשִים )?‛ The divine council is in the heavens, not on earth where the Jewish judges are. (Caps/brackets are my own doing-showing emphasis)
  

  Psalm 82.”-Dr. Heiser’s Essay on the Divine Assembly.
  

  Read the entire essays here:
  

  http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/Heiser%20Psa82inJohn10%20RegSBL2011.pdf
  

  http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/DivineCouncilLBD.pdf
  
• 
  1

  Is the Divine Council, Sons of God, on earth or in the heavens?

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in an interview by our radio station called watchtower of babel, we ask dr. heiser (skip to the fiftieth minute of the interview (50:47).

  it is about 5 minutes long) about the parallel passages: psalm 82 (sons of god) and psalm 89:5-7 [6-8] (sons of the most high) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq_phnl1... “psalm 82:1 is perhaps the best example, as it employs the expression ʿdt ʾil(m)(divine council) (hebrew: ףֲדַת־אֵל ) for the council, along with a transparent reference to gods under the authority of israel's god: ‚god (אֱלֹהִים ) stands in the council of el/the divine council (ףֲדַת־אֵל ); among the gods (אֱלֹהִים ) he passes judgment.‛ the second occurrence of אֱלֹהִים (gods) must be semantically plural due to the preposition ‚in the midst of.‛ (deut 32:8-9 (lxx, dss).

  a parallel passage, psalm 89:5-7 [6-8], places the god of israel ‚in the assembly of the holy ones‛ (בִקְהַל קְדֹשִים ) and then asks ‚ [for who in the clouds] (בַשַחַק ) can be compared to yahweh?

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  I_love_Jeff

  In an interview by our radio station called Watchtower of Babel, we ask Dr. Heiser (skip to the fiftieth minute of the interview (50:47). It is about 5 minutes long) about the parallel passages: Psalm 82 (Sons of God) and Psalm 89:5-7 [6-8] (Sons of the Most High)
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq_PHNL1...
  
  “Psalm 82:1 is perhaps the best example, as it employs the expression ʿdt ʾil(m)(Divine Council) (Hebrew: ףֲדַת־אֵל ) for the council, along with a transparent reference to gods under the authority of Israel's God: ‚God (אֱלֹהִים ) stands in the council of El/the divine council (ףֲדַת־אֵל ); among the gods (אֱלֹהִים ) he passes judgment.‛ The second occurrence of אֱלֹהִים (gods) must be semantically plural due to the preposition ‚in the midst of.‛ (Deut 32:8-9 (LXX, DSS). A parallel passage, Psalm 89:5-7 [6-8], places the God of Israel ‚in the assembly of the holy ones‛ (בִקְהַל קְדֹשִים ) and then asks ‚ [FOR WHO IN THE CLOUDS] (בַשַחַק ) can be compared to Yahweh? Who is like Yahweh among the sons of God (בְנֵי אֵלִים ), a god greatly feared in the council of the holy ones (בְסוֹד־קְדֹשִים )?‛ The divine council is in the heavens, not on earth where the Jewish judges are. (Caps/brackets are my own doing-showing emphasis)
  
  Psalm 82.”-Dr. Heiser’s Essay on the Divine Councel.

  http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/Heiser%20Psa82inJohn10%20RegSBL2011.pdf

  http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/DivineCouncilLBD.pdf

  After reading all of this material, is the Divine Council, Sons of God, on earth or in the heavens? What do you guys think?
  
  
  
• 
  47

  Has the Bible been redacted so that YAHWEH can be promoted to EL's position as Almighty God?

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for background, read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/yahweh, the section, "iron age i: el, yahweh, and the origins of israel.

  " "el and his sons made up the assembly of the gods, each member of which had a human nation under his care, and a textual variant of deuteronomy 32:8–9 describes the sons of el, including yahweh, each receiving his own people.

  "el, the kind, the compassionate,' 'the creator of creatures,' was the chief of the canaanite gods, and he, not yahweh, was the original 'god of israel'—the word 'israel' is based on the name el rather than yahweh.

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  I_love_Jeff

  For background, read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh, the section, "Iron Age I: El, Yahweh, and the origins of Israel." "El and his sons made up the Assembly of the Gods, each member of which had a human nation under his care, and a textual variant of Deuteronomy 32:8–9 describes the sons of El, including Yahweh, each receiving his own people."
  
  "El, the kind, the compassionate,' 'the creator of creatures,' was the chief of the Canaanite gods, and he, not Yahweh, was the original 'God of Israel'—the word 'Israel' is based on the name El rather than Yahweh. He lived in a tent on a mountain...with the goddess Asherah as his consort." [Ibid.]
  
  Some parts of the Bible are alluding to a certain form of heavenly government, specifically the Divine Council, comprised of EL and his angelic sons. See the footnote for the phrase, "sons of the true God": a Hebrew idiom that refers to angelic sons of God at Job 1:6.
  
  We need to take a closer look at the history of the Bible, the Israelites, and the name "Jehovah" that has been carelessly used to cover the various names and titles of gods that are NOT all the same.

  Update: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh
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  4

  Why are the human judges of Israel going to "die like Adam"?

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  many jehovah's witnesses and other christians believe that psalm 82 is referring to human judges.

  my question is this: .

  how is this a form of punishment if in fact these are merely human judges who were already going to die?

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  I_love_Jeff

  The sarim (fallen angels, Elohim) corruptly judged the nations. They will die like humans and fall like those bad angels that slept with the women mentioned in Genesis.
  
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  4

  Why are the human judges of Israel going to "die like Adam"?

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  many jehovah's witnesses and other christians believe that psalm 82 is referring to human judges.

  my question is this: .

  how is this a form of punishment if in fact these are merely human judges who were already going to die?

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  I_love_Jeff

  I think I understand what this is all about.

  "....But ye shall die like adam, and fall like one of the sarim (princes)"

  When the Elohim (Divine Beings) were administered to judge the earth, they became corrupt and so had fallen (like sarim (princes)) from heaven and died like men (part of the punishment for being corrupt judges).
  
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  4

  Why are the human judges of Israel going to "die like Adam"?

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  many jehovah's witnesses and other christians believe that psalm 82 is referring to human judges.

  my question is this: .

  how is this a form of punishment if in fact these are merely human judges who were already going to die?

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  I_love_Jeff

  "Another role given to the Sarim is the protection of the nations of the World. Some 70 angels where given this task. However, it is stated that all these angels fell from grace following the war in heaven, all accept the Archangel Michael. ( Click here for more information on the Fallen Angels).

  Further confusion abound that there is referenceto Se'irim, or hairy demons as the word itself means, are mentioned in Leviticus 17:7 and 2 Chronicles 11:15 as "goat-demons". Isaiah 34:14 says that the "goat-demons" greet each other amoung the ruins of Edom...." The Book of Enoch mentions sa'ir, sa'irim which also refers to 'he-goats' of which the Angel Azazel was linked. "

  http://www.archangels-and-angels.com/misc/sarim.html
  
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  4

  Why are the human judges of Israel going to "die like Adam"?

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  many jehovah's witnesses and other christians believe that psalm 82 is referring to human judges.

  my question is this: .

  how is this a form of punishment if in fact these are merely human judges who were already going to die?

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  I_love_Jeff

  Many Jehovah's Witnesses and other Christians believe that Psalm 82 is referring to human judges. My question is this:
  

  How is this a form of punishment if in fact these are merely HUMAN judges who were already going to die?

  Update: See Psalm 82

  
  

  Orthodox Jewish Bible
  Chapter Parallel
  Tehillim 82:7 (OJB) But ye shall die like adam, and fall like one of the sarim (princes)

  
  

  My question/s is/are not meant to start a debate/s or hate campaign/s with anyone. Just trying to understand the logic here. Thank you.
  

  
  
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  25

  How did we get from singular ha-Elohim (God) to plural ha-Elohim (judges)?

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  read exodus 22:6-8

  jps tanakh : 6 when a man gives money or goods to another for safekeeping, and they are stolen from the man’s house if the thief is caught, he shall pay double; 7 if the thief is not caught, the owner of the house shall come near (נקרב) to god (האלהים) that he has not laid hands on the other’s property.

  8 in all charges of misappropriation pertaining to an ox, an ***, a sheep, a garment, or any other loss, whereof one party alleges, “this is it” the case of both parties shall come before god (האלהים): he whom god (אלהים ) declares guilty (ַיְר ִשי ֻףן) shall pay double to the other.

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  I_love_Jeff

  OP???

  David_Jay not sure what is going on but I do know this: I enjoy digging deep into the heart of the Bible and investigating that which is mysterious. Thank you for your scholarly information.
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  25

  How did we get from singular ha-Elohim (God) to plural ha-Elohim (judges)?

  by I_love_Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  read exodus 22:6-8

  jps tanakh : 6 when a man gives money or goods to another for safekeeping, and they are stolen from the man’s house if the thief is caught, he shall pay double; 7 if the thief is not caught, the owner of the house shall come near (נקרב) to god (האלהים) that he has not laid hands on the other’s property.

  8 in all charges of misappropriation pertaining to an ox, an ***, a sheep, a garment, or any other loss, whereof one party alleges, “this is it” the case of both parties shall come before god (האלהים): he whom god (אלהים ) declares guilty (ַיְר ִשי ֻףן) shall pay double to the other.

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  I_love_Jeff

  Thank you Cold Steel for all your valuable information