How does God dividing humankind and fixing the boundaries of the peoples “according to the number of the sons of Israel” make any sense if the nation of Israel did not even exist yet? (Genesis 10)
"It makes little sense for God, shortly after He dispersed the nations at Babel, to have based the number of geographical regions on the earth on the family size of Israel, especially since there was no Jewish race at the time (Genesis 10 Table of Nations). This problem is compounded when one considers Deuteronomy 32:9. What logical correlation was Moses making when he wrote in verse 8 that God "set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel" and then made the concluding observation in verse 9 that "the LORD'S portion is his people, Jacob his allotted inheritance" (NIV)? Certainly the wording suggests a contrast between verses 8 and 9." -Dr. Heiser (M.A., Ph.D., Hebrew Bible and Semitic Studies)
*According to these sources (City of Ancient Ugaritic tablets found in 1928), Elyon divided up all the nations into seventy nations, one for each of his sons (Elim).
Masoretic Text. "Sons of Israel" ca. 10 century
Septuagint. A Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures. The oldest copies are in Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus ca. 4th century ad. "Sons of God"
Dead Sea Scrolls. Over 100,000 fragments of text, comprising more than 800 biblical and non-biblical manuscripts ca. 250 BC–AD 70. "Sons of God"
I_love_Jeff
JoinedPosts by I_love_Jeff
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Does this make any sense “according to the number of the sons of Israel” ?
by I_love_Jeff inhow does god dividing humankind and fixing the boundaries of the peoples “according to the number of the sons of israel” make any sense if the nation of israel did not even exist yet?
(genesis 10) "it makes little sense for god, shortly after he dispersed the nations at babel, to have based the number of geographical regions on the earth on the family size of israel, especially since there was no jewish race at the time (genesis 10 table of nations).
this problem is compounded when one considers deuteronomy 32:9. what logical correlation was moses making when he wrote in verse 8 that god "set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of israel" and then made the concluding observation in verse 9 that "the lord's portion is his people, jacob his allotted inheritance" (niv)?
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I_love_Jeff
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Daniel 10:13 and 20 speak of demons governing their respective nations?
by I_love_Jeff interritorial spirits-.
daniel 10:13,20 prince of persia.
deut: 32:9 “when the most high divided the nations, when he separated the sons of adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of god.
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I_love_Jeff
Daniel 10:13,20 Prince of Persia
Deut: 32:9 “When the Most High divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of God. And his people Jacob became the portion of the Lord, Israel was the line of his inheritance.” (Deuteronomy 32:7-9 Jerome’s version of the Septuagint)
The administration of the various nations has been parcelled out among a corresponding number of angelic powers
I only came across 2 mentioned in the Hebrew Bible
Prince (sar) of Persia- It took an extra powerful Archangel (Michael) to kick some ass.
Prince (sar) of Greece
Prince of Israel-Michael the Archangel
Perhaps some books of the Apocrapha may have more info on these princes???
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Does Jehovah need any protection?
by I_love_Jeff indoes jehovah need to be protected by a zealous scribe***** (masoretic text) or anyone else?
deuteronomy 32:8 is a textbook example of how later scribes sometimes changed the biblical text in a misguided attempt to “protect” god’s reputation.
deut 32:8, eliminates references to other divine beings (32:8, “sons of god”; 32:43, “heavenly ones” and “gods”).
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I_love_Jeff
lol
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Are there close parallels between Deuteronomy 32:8, Genesis 10 and the Ugaritic tablets?
by I_love_Jeff inaccording to these sources (city of ancient ugaritic tablets found in 1928) , elyon divided up all the nations into seventy nations, one for each of his sons (elim) .
sons of god makes the most sense than the sons of israel-deut.
32:8 especially since there was no nation of israel listed in the table of nations.
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I_love_Jeff
Thank you Mr. OrphanCrow.
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Are there close parallels between Deuteronomy 32:8, Genesis 10 and the Ugaritic tablets?
by I_love_Jeff inaccording to these sources (city of ancient ugaritic tablets found in 1928) , elyon divided up all the nations into seventy nations, one for each of his sons (elim) .
sons of god makes the most sense than the sons of israel-deut.
32:8 especially since there was no nation of israel listed in the table of nations.
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I_love_Jeff
"Ugaritic mythology plainly states that the head of its pantheon, El (who, like the God of the Bible, is also referred to as El Elyon, the "Most High") fathered seventy sons, 1 0 thereby specifying the number of the "sons of El" (Ugaritic, bn il). An unmistakable linguistic parallel with the Hebrew text underlying the Septuagint reading was thus discovered, one that prompted many scholars to accept the Septuagintal reading on logical and philological grounds—God (El Elyon in Deut. 32:8) divided the earth according to the number of heavenly beings who existed from before the time of creation. (Job 38:7 states that the heavenly host was present at creation.)
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Are there close parallels between Deuteronomy 32:8, Genesis 10 and the Ugaritic tablets?
by I_love_Jeff inaccording to these sources (city of ancient ugaritic tablets found in 1928) , elyon divided up all the nations into seventy nations, one for each of his sons (elim) .
sons of god makes the most sense than the sons of israel-deut.
32:8 especially since there was no nation of israel listed in the table of nations.
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I_love_Jeff
Crazy Guy-Heiser's paper
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Does Jehovah need any protection?
by I_love_Jeff indoes jehovah need to be protected by a zealous scribe***** (masoretic text) or anyone else?
deuteronomy 32:8 is a textbook example of how later scribes sometimes changed the biblical text in a misguided attempt to “protect” god’s reputation.
deut 32:8, eliminates references to other divine beings (32:8, “sons of god”; 32:43, “heavenly ones” and “gods”).
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I_love_Jeff
Does Jehovah need to be protected by a zealous scribe***** (Masoretic Text) or anyone else?
Deuteronomy 32:8 is a textbook example of how later scribes sometimes changed the biblical text in a misguided attempt to “protect” God’s reputation. Deut 32:8, eliminates references to other divine beings (32:8, “sons of God”; 32:43, “heavenly ones” and “gods”). Also see Psalm 82: 5-7
*****This scribal practice of “protecting” God through textual changes is known as tiqqune sopherim (“emendations of the scribes”). See Emanuel Tov, Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible (Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 1992), pgs. 264–269. ↩
Masoretic Text. The Hebrew Scriptures as traditionally received. The two oldest copies of it are the Aleppo Codex and the Leningrad Codex—ca. 10th century ad.
Septuagint. A Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures. The oldest copies are in Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus—ca. 4th century ad.
Dead Sea Scrolls. Over 100,000 fragments of text, comprising more than 800 biblical and non-biblical manuscripts—ca. 250 BC–AD 70. -
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Are there close parallels between Deuteronomy 32:8, Genesis 10 and the Ugaritic tablets?
by I_love_Jeff inaccording to these sources (city of ancient ugaritic tablets found in 1928) , elyon divided up all the nations into seventy nations, one for each of his sons (elim) .
sons of god makes the most sense than the sons of israel-deut.
32:8 especially since there was no nation of israel listed in the table of nations.
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I_love_Jeff
According to these sources (City of Ancient Ugaritic tablets found in 1928) , Elyon divided up all the nations into seventy nations, one for each of his sons (Elim)
Sons of God makes the most sense than the Sons of Israel-Deut. 32:8 ESPECIALLY SINCE THERE WAS NO NATION OF ISRAEL listed in the Table of Nations. Genesis 10-11
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20180429220936AAIrxut
Not sure why the Jehovahs are not answering me. Hummmm
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Are the "angels of God", and "sons of Israel" the same thing?
by I_love_Jeff injust recently i posted a question on yahoo answers and asked a simple question to the jehovah's witnesses about the "sons of israel" and "sons of god".here is the question: .
are the "angels of god", and "sons of israel" the same thing?
if you apply the same translation (angels of god) in deuteronomy 32:43 to deuteronomy 32:8 we have this: when the most high divided the nations, when he separated the sons of adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of god.
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I_love_Jeff
Thank you peacefulpete
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Are the "angels of God", and "sons of Israel" the same thing?
by I_love_Jeff injust recently i posted a question on yahoo answers and asked a simple question to the jehovah's witnesses about the "sons of israel" and "sons of god".here is the question: .
are the "angels of god", and "sons of israel" the same thing?
if you apply the same translation (angels of god) in deuteronomy 32:43 to deuteronomy 32:8 we have this: when the most high divided the nations, when he separated the sons of adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of god.
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I_love_Jeff
Just recently I posted a question on Yahoo answers and asked a simple question to the Jehovah's Witnesses about the "sons of Israel" and "sons of God".Here is the question:
Are the "angels of God", and "sons of Israel" the same thing?
Why did the Watchtower Library 2012 translate Deut 32:43 using the LXX Bagster BUT did not use the same translation for Deut 32:8?
If you apply the same translation (angels of God) in Deuteronomy 32:43 to Deuteronomy 32:8 we have this: When the Most High divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of God." (See Bagster LXX Online)
Deut 32:8-Bagster LXX-ὅτε διεμέριζεν ὁ ὕψιστος ἔθνη ὡς διέσπειρεν υἱοὺς Αδαμ ἔστησεν ὅρια ἐθνῶν κατὰ ἀριθμὸν ἀγγέλων θεοῦ (angels of God)
*See Watchtower Library 2012*
(Deuteronomy 32:43) Be glad, YOU nations, with his people,*m (you have an asterisk and an "m") For he will avenge the blood of his servants, And he will pay back vengeance to his adversaries And will indeed make atonement for the ground of his people.”
(See Watchtower Library 2012)-Citation-m*“Be glad, O heavens, together with him, and let all theangels of God (ἄγγελοι Θεοῦ-angels of God) worship him. Be glad, you nations, with his people, and let all the sons of God strengthen themselves in him,” LXXBagster. Compare Heb 1:6.
Deut 32:43 εὐφράνθητε, οὐρανοί, ἅμα αὐτῷ, καὶ προσκυνησάτωσαν αὐτῷ πάντες ἄγγελοι Θεοῦ (angels of God)· εὐφράνθητε, ἔθνη μετὰ τοῦ λαοῦ αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἐνισχυσάτωσαν αὐτῷ πάντες υἱοὶ Θεοῦ· ὅτι τὸ αἷμα τῶν υἱῶν αὐτοῦ ἐκδικᾶται, καὶ ἐκδικήσει καὶ ἀνταποδώσει δίκην τοῖς ἐχθροῖς καὶ τοῖς μισοῦσιν ἀνταποδώσει, καὶ ἐκκαθαριεῖ Κύριος τὴν γῆν τοῦ λαοῦ αὐτοῦ.