Posts by optimisticskeptic

24

Younger Witnesses less fanatical or fundamental

by optimisticskeptic in

i am a born in jw for over 30 years now and have been in various positions in the organization.

now i'm guessing most of us recognize that older generations tend to be more fundamental and less reasonable when it comes to their outlook and beliefs.

i find this to mirror the differences you see outside of the organization as well (older people less tolerant of other religions, newer technology, lgbt, etc.).

optimisticskeptic

Yeah, I think anyone who has continued to be isolated through home school, being in rural congregations, etc could still be really fundamental. Although the internet helps keep people informed to some degree. I don't think this more laid back attitude has to do anything with the Witnesses specifically. It's a much larger macro culture thing. 200 years ago everyone lived or died by the church. Over the years people have generally become more progressive, secular, or less believing/fearful of the church and it's power. You see evidence of this across every brand of Christianity. 50 years ago no one would have thought we would see the cultural changes today of the acceptance of the LGBT community or gender or racial equality. Granted these are still issues, but especially people under 20 seem to be the most accepting of these things. There will always be the regressive parts of society but it seems more often than not the larger population slowly progresses even if there are pauses in that progression or reversals at times. Even all of the nationalist rhetoric you see in Europe and the US still represents a minority of those populations.

Anyways, all this to say is I don't think most younger witnesses are really even conscious of the more relaxed attitudes. They've just been raised in a different society and along with that I don't notice as much fire and brimstone from the platform. I think the day to day teachings have softened as well even if the main tenants are still very fundamental. So I think for some younger witnesses the social aspect is important, they believe it's the truth, but they don't get all judgemental or extreme on the smaller things like alcohol, entertainment, beards, etc. Hopefully, if some of these progress and become elders themselves perhaps we'll slowly see a shift towards those attitudes and becoming a bit more of a moderate religion. We'll see I guess.

24

Younger Witnesses less fanatical or fundamental

by optimisticskeptic in

i am a born in jw for over 30 years now and have been in various positions in the organization.

now i'm guessing most of us recognize that older generations tend to be more fundamental and less reasonable when it comes to their outlook and beliefs.

i find this to mirror the differences you see outside of the organization as well (older people less tolerant of other religions, newer technology, lgbt, etc.).

optimisticskeptic

Thanks! Yeah, I'm wondering how the org might change in the next 20 years or so as older generations die off. I wonder if the religion will become more reasonable and balanced. Time will tell I guess.

24

Younger Witnesses less fanatical or fundamental

by optimisticskeptic in

i am a born in jw for over 30 years now and have been in various positions in the organization.

now i'm guessing most of us recognize that older generations tend to be more fundamental and less reasonable when it comes to their outlook and beliefs.

i find this to mirror the differences you see outside of the organization as well (older people less tolerant of other religions, newer technology, lgbt, etc.).

optimisticskeptic

I am a born in JW for over 30 years now and have been in various positions in the organization. Now I'm guessing most of us recognize that older generations tend to be more fundamental and less reasonable when it comes to their outlook and beliefs. I find this to mirror the differences you see outside of the organization as well (older people less tolerant of other religions, newer technology, LGBT, etc.). Likewise, I find that younger ones in the organization, say 40 and under, also seem to be more rational and reasonable. I've known a lot of "true believers" in my time but I find I rarely meet any around my age. From what I've seen as well many have a more tolerant attitude towards alcohol as well as entertainment. Although no one really advertises this. Heck, one brother told me the research he was doing with his mom on medical marijuana and from what they could tell as long as you don't smoke it it's considered a conscience matter. Anyways, all this to say, has anyone else noticed this? I feel like people in religion in general are becoming increasingly less fundamental and more secular and reasonable, even in other religions. Of course, on the opposite side you have the extremist factions in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc. But it seems like the 80/20 rule where most are becoming more relaxed as opposed to more fundamental.

FWIW: I'm currently in a congregation in a city that has over a million people so perhaps it's the classic difference between more rural and isolated communities vs more generally more tolerant and progressive cities. I've been to some small more isolated congregations that are pretty insane.

7

Parttakers

by Freedom rocks in

i was reading another thread about the new gb member and it got me wondering if anyone knows someone who partook of the emblems at the memorial even though they knew they weren't 'anointed' just to see what reaction they got?

did they get questioned by elders?

did people start treating them differently?

optimisticskeptic

Every person I've known who claimed to be anointed was a complete nut job. One guy literally had bi-polar and was believed to be schizophrenic. I have not met anyone who thought they were anointed who seemed like a sensible normal person.

19

New round of elders and MS schools going on, anyone have a inside scoop on any of the info being shared there?

by optimisticskeptic in

confidential items are of most interest of course, just curious what they're talking about there in general and what are the newest things everyone is being warned about, etc.

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optimisticskeptic

Confidential items are of most interest of course, just curious what they're talking about there in general and what are the newest things everyone is being warned about, etc.

6

How do cultural norms impact Witnesses throughout the world?

by optimisticskeptic in

an easy example is beards.

i hear they're not unusual in places like europe, even on appointed brothers.

it also seems like they're becoming more accepted in more liberal parts of the states.

optimisticskeptic

An easy example is beards. I hear they're not unusual in places like Europe, even on appointed brothers. It also seems like they're becoming more accepted in more liberal parts of the States. Are there examples of other things like this that might be acceptable in Europe but not in the States or visa versa or even in other continents/countries throughout the world?

27

Why the move to Warwick?

by optimisticskeptic in

i've seen a lot of posts around and about warwick and the goings on there but was curious as to people's theories on why the move to warwick?

granted there's the obvious point about all of the money from the sale of properties in brooklyn but for as massive as warwick is, the purchase of an apartment complex there, multiple sites and buildings i would be surprised if they had much left from all of the profits.

so beyond a financial incentive why move?

optimisticskeptic

Is there any hard evidence on what they made selling the properties and how much Warwick cost? I would be deeply surprised if the math was as simple as 1b-200m=800m profit. There are multiple properties beyond Warwick, the tech building for the broadcasts, warehouses for sound stages, the buying out of an apartment complex, the buying out of a hotel, and I think there's another location that's for infirmed and old age ones. I don't think there's any way this is all 200m. I would think easily 500m. Regardless, you could still say they pocketed 200-300m, which is a lot of money no doubt, but I would think funds that don't last long for all of their operations even though their is a lot of cutting back throughout the org worldwide.

Regardless, interesting discussion being had!

9

Best Bethel stories

by optimisticskeptic in

i temped at bethel 3 times for varying lengths of time and found working there to not always be the rosy picture some would paint.

not a surprise really, but i think one of the things that surprised me the most was how a lot of the permanent bethelites (especially older ones) were so impersonal to temps.

they acted like you weren't worth investing their time in since you weren't permanent.

optimisticskeptic

I temped at Bethel 3 times for varying lengths of time and found working there to not always be the rosy picture some would paint. Not a surprise really, but I think one of the things that surprised me the most was how a lot of the permanent bethelites (especially older ones) were so impersonal to temps. They acted like you weren't worth investing their time in since you weren't permanent. Also there a bunch of germophobes there to the Nth degree. I was privately counseled for just doing little things like scratching my nose, smoothing my eye brow, little things like that at the dinner table for morning worship. Had a bunch of old people at my table who could really give a crap that I was there. I will say most of the people temping were pretty awesome though. I think they better represented the spirit of bethel or the younger bethelites too. They were fare more reasonable and balanced.

Anyways, definitely curious to hear interesting stories from those who have served at bethel in the past. Cheers!

27

Why the move to Warwick?

by optimisticskeptic in

i've seen a lot of posts around and about warwick and the goings on there but was curious as to people's theories on why the move to warwick?

granted there's the obvious point about all of the money from the sale of properties in brooklyn but for as massive as warwick is, the purchase of an apartment complex there, multiple sites and buildings i would be surprised if they had much left from all of the profits.

so beyond a financial incentive why move?

optimisticskeptic

Ah, didn't think about 9/11. I guess I could see that being a fairly valid reason for wanting to get out of an urban center like NYC.

27

Why the move to Warwick?

by optimisticskeptic in

i've seen a lot of posts around and about warwick and the goings on there but was curious as to people's theories on why the move to warwick?

granted there's the obvious point about all of the money from the sale of properties in brooklyn but for as massive as warwick is, the purchase of an apartment complex there, multiple sites and buildings i would be surprised if they had much left from all of the profits.

so beyond a financial incentive why move?

optimisticskeptic

I've seen a lot of posts around and about Warwick and the goings on there but was curious as to people's theories on why the move to Warwick? Granted there's the obvious point about all of the money from the sale of properties in Brooklyn but for as massive as Warwick is, the purchase of an apartment complex there, multiple sites and buildings I would be surprised if they had much left from all of the profits. So beyond a financial incentive why move? Other reasons I could think of is getting everyone out of the city to avoid "corrupting influences". And I could see having space to do what they want being a challenge now they're doing all of the videos and the sound stages and all. But it seems that could easily be accomplished via other means within the city and it certainly would be move walkable and convenient then having multiple sites upstate with shuttles and more driving, etc.

Anyways, curious on everyone's thoughts, please nothing conspiratorial, paranoid, etc. I'm still in the org for a variety of reasons and the only reason I've joined here is that I feel like there are plenty of level headed people here even though there are still some who just troll and post inflammatory and salacious things for little to no reason. So please, keep it constructive! :)