Going on 2+ years of no public ministry. Can't imagine anyone is really enjoying letter writing still or that it's remotely effective. I'm a little shocked that we haven't resumed yet but I guess that's what happens when the org is run by a bunch of old people (ie high risk for Covid) and a bunch of other sheltered germaphobes. It just seems ironic at this point that the one thing we're known for isn't really happening much anymore. It also seems somewhat politically/optics related. All of these precautions made sense at first but at this point it seems a bit ridiculous. Or perhaps there's too many idiots who aren't vaccinated too.
optimisticskeptic
JoinedPosts by optimisticskeptic
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27
Will the ministry ever resume?
by optimisticskeptic ingoing on 2+ years of no public ministry.
can't imagine anyone is really enjoying letter writing still or that it's remotely effective.
i'm a little shocked that we haven't resumed yet but i guess that's what happens when the org is run by a bunch of old people (ie high risk for covid) and a bunch of other sheltered germaphobes.
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What's actually recorded in publisher record cards?
by optimisticskeptic init seems to be unclear if things like public or private reproofs and details around those events being recorded and traveling with you.
it seems like the details are largely part of whatever judicial paperwork there is and not necessarily attached to your publisher card permanently.
i changed congregations a few years ago and it appears the letter the body wrote only covered the most recent issue and said nothing of a reproof that had happened a few years prior.
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optimisticskeptic
It seems to be unclear if things like public or private reproofs and details around those events being recorded and traveling with you. It seems like the details are largely part of whatever judicial paperwork there is and not necessarily attached to your publisher card permanently. I changed congregations a few years ago and it appears the letter the body wrote only covered the most recent issue and said nothing of a reproof that had happened a few years prior. Which I was thankful for since my dad was an elder and the previous reproof would have likely been far more upsetting to him. Anyways just curious on some clarity on how records on those things is kept, whether the details travel with you, etc. Thanks!
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Simon's Living Room!----10 Documents You Might Want!
by Atlantis inthese have already gone out by email.. when we come here, we are coming into simon's living room and need to protect all of his belongings.
this includes protecting the security here.. as many of you know, the watchtower has made a lawsuit over a song that they feel was wrongly used.
so, friends, the watchtower is still out there sending subpoenas and filing lawsuits.we have a few things you might want, so just reply below and i'll send you a pm.the norwegian letters are translated on page 2 of the pdf.instructions for russia prison letter writing2020-11-10--norwegian-english-campaign2020-12-09--direction related to covid-192020-12-15--norwegian-english2020-12-16--announcement december 16, 20202020-12-17--announcement2020-12-18--announcement2020-12-19--covid-19 vaccine announcement2020-12-21--kingdom hall internet service during the pandemic2020-12--bethel visitors lodging and car rental listatlantis!
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optimisticskeptic
Here too please!
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JW Response to COVID
by optimisticskeptic ini haven't been on here in quite some time so i apologize if i missed a similar thread already (i did look for one :) ) anyways, just to be clear i think the jw response to covid in general has been really positive and proactive and they've done really well trying to educate people on covid, doing zoom meetings, etc to prevent spread within the congregations.
the part that i find interesting is how compliant and non-apocalyptic the branch has been during all of this.
even as someone who's a bit of a skeptic i found myself wondering if this might be the beginning of the end between covid, economic upheaval, and blm.
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optimisticskeptic
I've been meaning to get back to this thread. Like usual the thread his verged into conspiracies and vitriol.
Back to the original topic of how the GB have handled this. Besides the first video, Covid rhetoric had generally been tame or very complaint with secular laws and standards. There's been constant instruction to adhere to CDC guidelines, listening to local authorities and being sensitive to local circumstances. There has also been the very rare sharing of directions from secular sources on how to remain safe.
But I sense that the GB don't want people to get too complacent because the word is spreading that during CO visits there's lots of admonition about this being preparation for future events. Loyalty to direction and the org. Personally the last bit doesn't bother me at all because what idiot isn't wearing a mask in public places, washing hands thoroughly, avoiding large public gatherings, and socially distancing whenever possible? It blows my mind how many people must not be doing this because there are letters every two weeks reminding people how to do all of these things. And how important it all is.
Anyways, my ultimate point is the same. All of the actions from the GB seem to indicate they don't think this is the end and are actively trying not to encourage this thinking within the rank and file. Which good on them I guess. It just strikes me as highly ironic. Depending how long all this goes I do wonder if the message will continue of veer towards more fear mongering to keep people motivated and not lose everyone when/if meetings ever come back.
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JW Response to COVID
by optimisticskeptic ini haven't been on here in quite some time so i apologize if i missed a similar thread already (i did look for one :) ) anyways, just to be clear i think the jw response to covid in general has been really positive and proactive and they've done really well trying to educate people on covid, doing zoom meetings, etc to prevent spread within the congregations.
the part that i find interesting is how compliant and non-apocalyptic the branch has been during all of this.
even as someone who's a bit of a skeptic i found myself wondering if this might be the beginning of the end between covid, economic upheaval, and blm.
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optimisticskeptic
Agreed, ThinkerBelle. I think being in NY prob contributes to how seriously they're responding globally. And I agree that all of the Zoom meetings makes it easy to do the minimum while making it seem like you're doing more. -
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JW Response to COVID
by optimisticskeptic ini haven't been on here in quite some time so i apologize if i missed a similar thread already (i did look for one :) ) anyways, just to be clear i think the jw response to covid in general has been really positive and proactive and they've done really well trying to educate people on covid, doing zoom meetings, etc to prevent spread within the congregations.
the part that i find interesting is how compliant and non-apocalyptic the branch has been during all of this.
even as someone who's a bit of a skeptic i found myself wondering if this might be the beginning of the end between covid, economic upheaval, and blm.
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optimisticskeptic
I haven't been on here in quite some time so I apologize if I missed a similar thread already (I did look for one :) ) Anyways, just to be clear I think the JW response to COVID in general has been really positive and proactive and they've done really well trying to educate people on COVID, doing Zoom meetings, etc to prevent spread within the congregations. The part that I find interesting is how compliant and non-apocalyptic the branch has been during all of this. Even as someone who's a bit of a skeptic I found myself wondering if this might be the beginning of the end between COVID, economic upheaval, and BLM. As things progressed I don't really feel this way anymore, but it certainly crossed my mind a few times when it began. In very early videos the branch did talk about the possibility of the end coming. But they haven't gone down that path since but rather have emphasized repeatedly about safety, preventing spread, complying with local authorities, etc.
I mention all of this to get to my main point/question. I find it interesting that the branch has taken so many actions to prevent being targeted as a religion during the crisis. There were certainly some other religions that ignored things in the south and still met and were widely condemned. It seems like if the GB really felt this was the beginning of the end they would ignore governments and circumstances and continue to meet as Babylon the Great turning on false religion is the beginning of the Great Tribulation. So it seems like if the circumstances presented themselves you would basically try to encourage governments turning on religions including JWs as it starts to fulfill prophecies of persecution and what not and could somewhat credibly be painted as the beginning of the events that mark the great tribulation. I think that the GB isn't responding this way is rather telling personally. I think they are way more cautious after falsely predicting the beginning of end times more than once. I also think it reveals that if the end is coming, truly no one knows when and that even the GB aren't willing to hurry things along since they obviously don't know when or if the end is coming. I guess this is also what I would say is the most prominent example of a public contradiction since we're repeatedly told that the end is coming very soon, you never know when, videos of people in basements, get your go bags ready, etc. Granted a lot of this language has been around for years, but it seems to have ticked up over the last few. But then when given the chance to really seize on an opportunity to interpret events as the end and to kind of encourage prophecy fulfillment they instead choose to be very compliant and pragmatic and generally avoid catastrophizing and talking about this being the end even though lots of members certainly feel like it could be. This is certainly the only event in my lifetime that felt like it could genuinely signal the beginning of the end yet the branch has actively not encouraged that line of thinking aside from occasional "this is preparation for the end" kind of talk.
I don't say any of the above to be overly negative (although I'm sure some on here will commence with the belly aching) I see it as more of a pragmatic validation that it's quite possible the end will never come as predicted and that really no one knows. As a skeptic I find this a little comforting because it means I can fairly confidently continue living without the fear of the end coming tomorrow hanging over my head. I've lived that way for some time now but this is probably the biggest event in my lifetime that makes me feel more confident that I can continue to pursue my professional and secular goals and take care of my family while doing the minimum in the org to keep everyone happy.
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JW Malaise
by Half banana inmalaise according to the cambridge dictionary:.
a general feeling of being ill or having no energy, or an uncomfortable feeling that something is wrong, especially with society, and that you cannot change the situation.
where the dictionary says society, read "the society"........... is there a malaise in the jw world?
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optimisticskeptic
I would say sir82 is closest on this answer. It's something I debate internally as well. Although I think there are a few more shades between pure socialites and true believers. I know a lot of younger ones, young couples, and young families and I would say there's a pretty large swath of believers that aren't hardcore. Not sure what to call them. They're spiritually minded but don't really pursue any privileges, seem to believe its the truth but don't really bother to question or research their faith. They're a step above socialites as they do have some level of conviction and are regular in service and meetings. Anyways, I think this makes up a pretty large group of all ages. But I've commented here before that I do think many in the org are certainly becoming a bit more casual and balanced. I find especially those under 40 or 30 to be this way, even those who are appointed are generally not nearly as dogmatic. Which is nice. Unfortunately you still have a lot of older ones who are stuck in their ways. It will be interesting to see what JWs are like in another 20-30 years.
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Transferring Congregations
by optimisticskeptic inwhat is included in the publisher cards and other information when you transfer from one congregation to another?
i was privately reproved and may be moving to a congregation where there are brothers i rather not know why i was privately reproved.
is the fact i was privately reproved visible but not the reason why?
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optimisticskeptic
Well sounds like I could be in the clear. I think the reproof was around 4-5 years ago. My privileges were restored in 6-12 months. I haven't done anything to irritate anyone. Meeting attendance or field service is sometimes a bit sporadic but generally regular. I have good relationships with most in the congregation. I'd say the only problem elder has already gone to another congregation so he's not of concern anymore.
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Transferring Congregations
by optimisticskeptic inwhat is included in the publisher cards and other information when you transfer from one congregation to another?
i was privately reproved and may be moving to a congregation where there are brothers i rather not know why i was privately reproved.
is the fact i was privately reproved visible but not the reason why?
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optimisticskeptic
What is included in the publisher cards and other information when you transfer from one congregation to another? I was privately reproved and may be moving to a congregation where there are brothers I rather not know why I was privately reproved. Is the fact I was privately reproved visible but not the reason why? I heard the reason why can be sealed or not known, just the fact you were privately reproved. Thanks for any help/info you can provide! -
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Younger Witnesses less fanatical or fundamental
by optimisticskeptic ini am a born in jw for over 30 years now and have been in various positions in the organization.
now i'm guessing most of us recognize that older generations tend to be more fundamental and less reasonable when it comes to their outlook and beliefs.
i find this to mirror the differences you see outside of the organization as well (older people less tolerant of other religions, newer technology, lgbt, etc.).
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optimisticskeptic
Yeah, I think anyone who has continued to be isolated through home school, being in rural congregations, etc could still be really fundamental. Although the internet helps keep people informed to some degree. I don't think this more laid back attitude has to do anything with the Witnesses specifically. It's a much larger macro culture thing. 200 years ago everyone lived or died by the church. Over the years people have generally become more progressive, secular, or less believing/fearful of the church and it's power. You see evidence of this across every brand of Christianity. 50 years ago no one would have thought we would see the cultural changes today of the acceptance of the LGBT community or gender or racial equality. Granted these are still issues, but especially people under 20 seem to be the most accepting of these things. There will always be the regressive parts of society but it seems more often than not the larger population slowly progresses even if there are pauses in that progression or reversals at times. Even all of the nationalist rhetoric you see in Europe and the US still represents a minority of those populations.
Anyways, all this to say is I don't think most younger witnesses are really even conscious of the more relaxed attitudes. They've just been raised in a different society and along with that I don't notice as much fire and brimstone from the platform. I think the day to day teachings have softened as well even if the main tenants are still very fundamental. So I think for some younger witnesses the social aspect is important, they believe it's the truth, but they don't get all judgemental or extreme on the smaller things like alcohol, entertainment, beards, etc. Hopefully, if some of these progress and become elders themselves perhaps we'll slowly see a shift towards those attitudes and becoming a bit more of a moderate religion. We'll see I guess.