Posts by Flat

464

Applying Math, Physics, Archeology to THE STORY OF NOAH

by Terry in

Flat_Accent

This has gone on for far too long.

Truthseeker is trolling all of you.

20

Why I hate religion, but I love Jesus

by lostandconfused in

jw
friends

.

Seeing Both Sides

by Flat_Accent in

my parents are sat upstairs right now going over a chapter in the jeremiah book for their family study.

while i went up briefly to get something, i overheard my dad relating a personal experience.

something about being on the ministry and getting a 'bad vibe' about a certain house.

I'm not sure which particular experience they were talking about in the book. It's only an educated guess. But yes, I've heard similar stories of sisters who have gone out and met murderers at the door, but were not attacked due to the 'big man standing behind her'.

9

Seeing Both Sides

by Flat_Accent in

my parents are sat upstairs right now going over a chapter in the jeremiah book for their family study.

while i went up briefly to get something, i overheard my dad relating a personal experience.

something about being on the ministry and getting a 'bad vibe' about a certain house.

Flat_Accent

My parents are sat upstairs right now going over a chapter in the Jeremiah book for their family study. While I went up briefly to get something, I overheard my dad relating a personal experience. Something about being on the ministry and getting a 'bad vibe' about a certain house. He decided not to knock on the door. It's likely this had some relation to an experience in the book about a witness who had decided not to preach at one house, and this in effect saved their life from a homicidal maniac or a rapist.

I heard the phrase 'The Angels are guiding us.'

It always amazes me how the witnesses seem to cherrypick experiences; repeating the good incidents, and overlooking the bad ones. It is common to hear of a brother being saved from certain death, or arriving at just the right time to save someone else. Such experiences are a common theme in the magazines and in talks. But how many witnesses do you think have been killed or abused while on the ministry? In turn, how many witnesses have reached a house too late, and that person has already ended their life? How many witnesses have died while praying for food to arrive?

My question is - seeing as the majority of you have been or may still be witnesses - did you ever think about these negative incidents while you were a witness? Did you ever consider why Jehovah is so inconsistent, when he saves one faithful man, but fails to save another? If so, how did you excuse these cases in your own mind?

Thanks,

Andy

29

Early Civilizations and Bible Chronology...Part 2

by xelder in

was away from my normal computer and so my two posts to start the first thread didn't show.. however, thanks to all who picked up the topic and commented shadesofgrey, sizemik, lars, designs, otwo, jwfacts.

since i never commented on my own thread, i thought i should and thank everyone.. adam's claimed date of creation of c. 4000 bc was mentioned, however, the bible would have everyone coming from noah at c. 2650 bc.

american civilizations are said to date prior to the usual biblical date of the flood.

Flat_Accent

Ann, i've seen that image many times before. I'm wondering if you know the origin of it? How do we know that is what the ancients (nation of Israel in particular) believed about the earth? The JW's would have me believe the Jews knew the earth was spherical.

I don't usually play devils advocate, but I'm quite interested to find out any info on the source of that ancient flat earth idea.

29

Early Civilizations and Bible Chronology...Part 2

by xelder in

was away from my normal computer and so my two posts to start the first thread didn't show.. however, thanks to all who picked up the topic and commented shadesofgrey, sizemik, lars, designs, otwo, jwfacts.

since i never commented on my own thread, i thought i should and thank everyone.. adam's claimed date of creation of c. 4000 bc was mentioned, however, the bible would have everyone coming from noah at c. 2650 bc.

american civilizations are said to date prior to the usual biblical date of the flood.

Flat_Accent

Lars, im not sure where you got your ideas on dendrochronology, but that dating method can now accurately measure a trees age to 8000+ years.

Tree-ring studies have been a staple of anthropological investigation in the American Southwest since the early decades of this century and in Europe since World War II. The bristlecone pine chronology of the American Southwest now exceeds 8500 years with the possibility that up to 3000 floating years will be added in the reasonably near future. The European oak and pine chronology, a composite of work done in Germany and Northern Ireland, is now over 11,000 years long.
Source: http://www.arts.cornell.edu/dendro/ajatext.html

Considering the flood was only 4000 years ago, these trees have done considerably well to survive for so long - and not to show any evidence of a flood in their rings. But that's another topic.

Seeing as most JW's dont have qualms with dendrochronology, I thought this small section of an article on corior would be of interest, to show that other dating methods are applied. For example, Ice cores.

For example, the eruption of Mount Mazama that formed Crater Lake in Oregon had been dated by the mid-1960s by radiocarbon methods to between 6500 and 7000 years ago. A direct count of layers in ice cores from Greenland, in which ash from the eruption was found, gave a date of 4401 B.C., or 6391 years ago, not all that far from the radiocarbon dates, and in fact consistent with findings from tree ring studies that radiocarbon dates tend to be somewhat older than actual dates. Human artifacts have been found under ash from this eruption. A 1979 Scientific American article said: 56

.... tests showed that tephra layers found at certain archaeological sites came from Mount Mazama.... One of the archaeological sites was Fort Rock Cave.... Under the tephra [were] found sandals made of sagebrush bark, one of which was dated by carbon-14 analysis and found to be some 9000 years old.

I'd recommend you give the whole article a read.

Oh and from johnnyc's comment about the water canopy altering dates - although a canopy would give incorrect dates for C-14 methods, there would have been other inconsistencies which we don't see. For example, besides dendrochronology - thermoluminescence dating, fission track dating, amino-acid dating, and uranium/thorium dating confirm C-14 dates for humans at the last ice age (i.e. about 21,000 years ago for the glacial maximum) within 20%. If the canopy had existed up to 4000 years ago this would not have been the case since all of the above, with the possible exception of thermoluminescence dating, are unaffected by the presence or absence of cosmic rays.

13

Watchtower and World Government

by Infowarrior in

i, like many of you, are aware of many issues involving the watchtower society.

this is about the watchtower, world government and the new world order.. .

" -- watchtower 1978 3/1 the kingdom of our lord and of his christ takes over.

Flat_Accent

You make an interesting claim about Russell being one of these Royal bloodlines that goes all the way back to King David. I'd like to see your evidence of this please.

As for the rest of it, I can't say it's anything more than speculation on your part. Obviously, Russell was around at the time where Freemasons, Millerites and Adventists were quite popular. Russell himself was obsessed with the pyramids and numerology. But it should be quite obvious to you that despite the association as an NGO (which they aren't anymore), the 'World Government' spoken of in the magazines is Gods government. They refer to it as a World Government because well... it's (supposedly) going to govern the world. What other term would you have them use?

I'm not a believer in the modern Freemason/Illuminati conspiracies. It is far more likely that those who are seen to be in control (Goldman Sachs and giant corporations) ARE actually the ones in control.

Anyway, I hope I didn't misconstrue what you were trying to say here.

14

Watchtower and the Civil Rights movement

by Flat_Accent in

i'm one of the new guys here, but i had a question that's been bugging me for a while.. i've heard it said quite a number of times that the wtbts did more for the black rights movement in the 60's, than both martin luther king and malcom x. is there any evidence of this?.

i understand that recently they have made brought some changes to religious freedoms in places like russia, but i seem to remember that the watchtower at one point proclaimed that black people would be 'cleansed' and made white in the new system.

so to me it sounds rather fallacious.. cheers,.

Flat_Accent

Wow, blondie. That's some great stuff there. Thanks.

The message from those articles is blatantly obvious. Do not protest, it's not important. I find it appalling that the Watchtower would deny it's members the freedom to protest against the persecution of african-americans. I'm glad those people who did stand up and protest were not of the Watchtower mentality, or we'd still have been living in an overtly racist society. Although it's clear the WT has to promote it's own ideas that the world can only get worse and worse, and any attempts to better it are a waste of time.

Awful really. But i'm glad I have seen this. I'll know what to say the next time it is brought up.

14

Watchtower and the Civil Rights movement

by Flat_Accent in

i'm one of the new guys here, but i had a question that's been bugging me for a while.. i've heard it said quite a number of times that the wtbts did more for the black rights movement in the 60's, than both martin luther king and malcom x. is there any evidence of this?.

i understand that recently they have made brought some changes to religious freedoms in places like russia, but i seem to remember that the watchtower at one point proclaimed that black people would be 'cleansed' and made white in the new system.

so to me it sounds rather fallacious.. cheers,.

Flat_Accent

Thanks for your responses, guys. It seems then, as though this was one particular case the WT didn't get involved in. I have just read in an older thread (relating to an article) about the fact that in the 30's congregations were separate for whites and blacks.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/216147/1/Wait-Wait-WHAT-Dec-15th-WT-Study-This-bugs-me

Yet around the same time the witnesses had strongly fought against things like the flag salute.

14

Watchtower and the Civil Rights movement

by Flat_Accent in

i'm one of the new guys here, but i had a question that's been bugging me for a while.. i've heard it said quite a number of times that the wtbts did more for the black rights movement in the 60's, than both martin luther king and malcom x. is there any evidence of this?.

i understand that recently they have made brought some changes to religious freedoms in places like russia, but i seem to remember that the watchtower at one point proclaimed that black people would be 'cleansed' and made white in the new system.

so to me it sounds rather fallacious.. cheers,.

Flat_Accent

Hello everyone,

I'm one of the new guys here, but I had a question that's been bugging me for a while.

I've heard it said quite a number of times that the WTBTS did more for the Black Rights movement in the 60's, than both Martin Luther King and Malcom X. Is there any evidence of this?

I understand that recently they have made brought some changes to religious freedoms in places like Russia, but I seem to remember that the Watchtower at one point proclaimed that black people would be 'cleansed' and made white in the new system. So to me it sounds rather fallacious.

Cheers,

Andy

Flat_Accent

Posts by Flat_Accent