NewChapter I agree with you that when we don't understand it we claim god. He is our shelter. Another thing is that a lot of times we just want to believe (I guess we are afraid to be alone in this universe with no guidence). Like when I used to side with the WT even though there was a lot of evidence against it.
atrapado
JoinedPosts by atrapado
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165
evolution question
by outsmartthesystem init has taken me almost 2 years to get to the bottom of the watchtower society rabbit hole.
being fully convinced that i was duped....i am still a little ashamed of myself for being so narrow minded.
i have vowed never to close off my mind like that again.
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165
evolution question
by outsmartthesystem init has taken me almost 2 years to get to the bottom of the watchtower society rabbit hole.
being fully convinced that i was duped....i am still a little ashamed of myself for being so narrow minded.
i have vowed never to close off my mind like that again.
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atrapado
Hi all, so I wanted to comment for a while but seems like a never ending argument quoting Hassan:
"The more insistent a person is about the accuracy of his or her observations, the more likely it is that his or her sense of reality is distorted."
Goes both ways. For example I believe in a creator (God), for many reasons. Does that make me correct of course not. I rather not get into this debate into great detail but think about this there are things creation cannot explain and there are thing evolution cannot explain. I personally haven't seen an absolute truth.
When you consider the DNA and its complexity and how it got to the state where it currently is. I cannot but wonder how little we know of how it got where it is. Either through evolution or creation.
I have worked on some hard problems and tried to solve them using an algorithm. Take for example NP-hard problems some of those problems are to complex that using our current computers (some could be solved using quantum computing) cannot be solved with a direct approach. Sometimes randomization algorithms are good enough to solve them but not always.
However the complexity of how our DNA got to where it is just from natural selection and millions+ of random modifications of the DNA becomes such a complex problem that any attempts to model what exactly happen or how it got there are no more than good educated guesses. For example I have worked with other engineers and scientists and we model a problem then we all revised and are ready to test our experiment. At times our experiments turns out exactly how we predicted but most of the time it doesn't, we failed to take a component in consideration we miscalculated something or just the non-deterministic nature of the problem doesn't always allow us to predict it successfully.
My conclusion just because something is possible doesn't mean it will happen. Consider for example the infinite monkey theorem can those monkeys eventually write a full Shakespearean play. If you consider that will take them longer than the age of the universe then sure is possible but not likely.
Even from an experiment of 100years you cannot accurately extrapolated it to millions of years. Since we don't know all the details(maybe some cosmic radiation came and modified life’s DNA long ago that cause it not to be random who knows) the best we can do is guess, speculate. Maybe in a few millions years when we have a lot more data from our current time we'll be able to have a stronger case or a weaker case against evolution. I am not saying it doesn't exist but I don't know how much it can explain.
The more we learn the more we realize how ignorant we are as human beings. I like the elephant analogy use by one scientist I used to work with. Sometimes our knowledge can be compare to a pinhole the size of a needle. And having an elephant up close we are trying to determine what is in front of us and all the data we collect is very small chunks at a time.
Just food for though. I am not on a debating mood which will go nowhere.
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Checking Bibles for "God's Name"
by sabastious ini had a ritual growing up every time we traveled to an assembly or convention.
in the hotel i would always take a look at the gideon bible's that were always stored in one of the drawers.
immediately upon finding it i would open up to psalms 83:18 to check if the bible had god's name within it.
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atrapado
God's name or the YHWH is found on the OT(6828 times), but is not found on about 5000 old manuscripts of the new testament. You seen Yahwe on the Jerusalem bible in the NT?. Do you have a scripture? I haven't seen it on the NT.
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26
Checking Bibles for "God's Name"
by sabastious ini had a ritual growing up every time we traveled to an assembly or convention.
in the hotel i would always take a look at the gideon bible's that were always stored in one of the drawers.
immediately upon finding it i would open up to psalms 83:18 to check if the bible had god's name within it.
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atrapado
I am personally using the New Jeruslame Bible. This bible translates YHWH to Yahweh everywhere is found in the older manuscripts. I personally read spanish and english and since I can get this Bible in both languages is a plus.
I have done what you described about Psalms 83:18. But usually in Catholic bibles that is Psalms 82:19 and you'll find that many will tell you in Exodus 3:15(footnones) that they have replaced YHWH with 'LORD' all capitals.
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63
The Control is simply amazing
by outsmartthesystem inat the kind advice of so many of you (and hassan) on this board....i ceased attempting to discuss doctrine/failures with my wife many months ago.
but unfortunately that does not prevent her from grilling me from time to time.
during one of our infamous "discussions" she said she was going to "investigate" this supposed "proof" that is out there regarding 587bc.
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atrapado
Outsmartthesystem I feel your pain I really do. I have shown my wife the lies, failed prophecies, and the damage they have cause to thousands of people. She tells me "it just doesn't feel like that." When those things don't affect you directly is easy for someone to detach themselfs of all the wrongs the WT has done. And I know the biggest issue for my wife are her friends and family. I have family in it and technically am still a JW. I want to be patient and see how it turns out. I tell her listen if I give my letter of DAs they might ask you if you believe the GB is the only channel from God what are you going to tell them? She says she'll tell them she doesn't know.
But I think the best thing we can do is to lead by example. If you show your wife that you can be happy and a good husband not believing on the WT and that you don't need the GB to be a good person, that might have more weight than anything you say to her. I know is not easy when I first found out the TATT I felt like crap, people around me could tell I was detach and that something was wrong. I honestly can say I feel so much better now. I read Steve Hassans books and that help me find some peace. And I know that getting my wife out might take years. For sure there are many challenges with my wife, congregation, and my family, but I learn not to fear men and not to let others judge me or pressure me to do something I don't want. Lets be happy to know what we know and try to change what we can and not stress about things we cannot change. Easier said than done.
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63
The Control is simply amazing
by outsmartthesystem inat the kind advice of so many of you (and hassan) on this board....i ceased attempting to discuss doctrine/failures with my wife many months ago.
but unfortunately that does not prevent her from grilling me from time to time.
during one of our infamous "discussions" she said she was going to "investigate" this supposed "proof" that is out there regarding 587bc.
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atrapado
Not sure why it keeps bolding just that part of the text I didn't want to bold anything.
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63
The Control is simply amazing
by outsmartthesystem inat the kind advice of so many of you (and hassan) on this board....i ceased attempting to discuss doctrine/failures with my wife many months ago.
but unfortunately that does not prevent her from grilling me from time to time.
during one of our infamous "discussions" she said she was going to "investigate" this supposed "proof" that is out there regarding 587bc.
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atrapado
About the OP.
Is your wife willing to read Crisis of Conscious? Before I read the book for many years I had read many arguments about our doctrines, and some scandals like the UN NGO and silentlambs. I even read about the 607. Even if those were disturbing to me I would always find a crazy way to defend the WT. But once I read CoC I realize that it was a man made organization and I went back to check all those arguments and be more objective about them. Before CoC even if the evidence was 99.99% agains what I belive, to me the GB was God's channel so they knew better.
One thing that made me doubt about 1914 was the reference of Psalm 110:1. This was before I read CoC. We use that text to say look when Jesus went to the heavens he didn't start his rule he had to wait until God would put his enemies as his footstool. If you think about it one of his enemies is Satan, so how come he rid the heavens of Satan after he started his rule. Also one of the references to PSlams 110:1 is 1Corinthians 15:25,26 and there it says Jesus would be ruling until his enemies including death would become his footstools, nothing happend to death in 1914. So you can't use Psalms to say Jesus had to wait is the other way around. Compare that to Matthew 28:18 if Jesus received a ll authority why didn't he start to rule at that moment? Those texts made me doubt of 1914 hence 607.
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63
The Control is simply amazing
by outsmartthesystem inat the kind advice of so many of you (and hassan) on this board....i ceased attempting to discuss doctrine/failures with my wife many months ago.
but unfortunately that does not prevent her from grilling me from time to time.
during one of our infamous "discussions" she said she was going to "investigate" this supposed "proof" that is out there regarding 587bc.
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63
The Control is simply amazing
by outsmartthesystem inat the kind advice of so many of you (and hassan) on this board....i ceased attempting to discuss doctrine/failures with my wife many months ago.
but unfortunately that does not prevent her from grilling me from time to time.
during one of our infamous "discussions" she said she was going to "investigate" this supposed "proof" that is out there regarding 587bc.
-
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63
The Control is simply amazing
by outsmartthesystem inat the kind advice of so many of you (and hassan) on this board....i ceased attempting to discuss doctrine/failures with my wife many months ago.
but unfortunately that does not prevent her from grilling me from time to time.
during one of our infamous "discussions" she said she was going to "investigate" this supposed "proof" that is out there regarding 587bc.
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