Posts by Pathofthorns

22

Lets blame the belief system

by A Paduan in

jw
friends

i've just been reading a post about elders, and how the 'belief system' is the blame.

talk about an extension of jwism.. "but the woman you gave me".. each and every jw that told lies at someone's door, actually "told lies at someone's door".

simple as that.

It makes me sick to think of the lies I spread and I wished so badly to say sorry to many for even believing I had the truth over their beliefs. Particularly after the generation change, I realized what I had done.

Even though I wasn't knowingly spreading lies, that is what I had been doing and that is what makes me angry.

But there is part of me that does want to blame someone as well. Those of us who were "born into" this religion seemed to have no choice but to stick it out until we were of age to evaluate it critically and make it on our own without our families.

I find the "victims of victims" line difficult to accept, although deep down inside I think it might be true. We all point fingers at someone higher until we reach the GB and they point fingers at the doctrines and "body of truth" that has been passed on to them and men that no longer are alive. They would certainly be victims of "conditioning" too would they not? But I fail to see how that should excuse them or anyone else making up the heirarchy and even those at the bottom.

It hurts but I think you are right in that we have to accept a significant measure of responsibility for what happened to us. I still don't like how they trap their children in the religion but maybe I'm just being biased in that respect and trying to excuse myself somehow too.

Path

31

Class Action Lawsuit based on misinformation*

by biblexaminer in

i have long considered a lawsuit against the watchtower organization.

i realize that i am not the only one.

there are now presently many who are seriously considering it, and some who are actively pursuing it.

Pathofthorns

This is how the public thinks...

"This is a weird religion that you were dumb enough to join. The not celebrating holidays or forbidding of blood transfusions didn't tip you off? And now you want to sue them because you didn't know they were a cult?"

"And if you were raised in the religion, well lots of people had rough upbringings - alot worse than you. Get on with life and stop complaining about it. "

**One would have had to have been a Witness to truly understand the above comments are just not entirely practical to make. But I feel there is little basis to win in court on the basis you have described due to the mindset of the public. It would even be a costly gamble to proceed in the hopes of getting media coverage. So JW's are liars.. what else is new in the world?

Path

61

Are we wrong to attack the Elders?

by MARTINLEYSHON in

jw
friends

i see a number of board members alluding to the elders as antagonists.

this is amoral.

there is an inference that these ones ( elders ) can think for themselves, they cannot.

Pathofthorns

I cannot rationalize the reform-minded elder either. I can understand that many elders before they ultimately resign might consider that as a viable option, but reality is again that tests of loyalty will arrise.

Even the reform-minded elder has to ultimately risk his position to stand up against injustice. And when it comes down to it his stand against injustice will either get him removed or he will resign over how the matter is handled.

A person cannot turn a blind eye to injustice and vote along with a body or go with the flow at the expense of people and what is morally and ethically right and then claim he was doing so in the interests of reform. Intent to reform something to a higher standard while selling out those same standards to keep a position is completely contradictory.

I believe we can do without these elders seeking reform. Sure they are nice and handy sometimes but ultimately quality elders leaving their positions in sufficient numbers will leave the Society stranded. The Society cannot operate without these men.

And if these men are worried they will lose their families for giving up a position, then they need to explain that they can serve Jehovah just fine as a publisher..

Path

61

Are we wrong to attack the Elders?

by MARTINLEYSHON in

jw
friends

i see a number of board members alluding to the elders as antagonists.

this is amoral.

there is an inference that these ones ( elders ) can think for themselves, they cannot.

Pathofthorns

HS.. I will accept the probablity that I may be unreasonable and narrow-minded on this subject but I see few things that directly cause more unrest in the JW community than how elders handle matters. Likely they are in a no win situation, but too often they get involved where they shouldn't and too often they turn blind eyes to things they should be paying attention to. All in all you have untrained men stumbling around and disasterously wrecking havoc in people's personal lives.

Yes there are many good elders but all I am saying is that it is inevitable that tests of loyalty will come their way. Whether an elder puts his position over people says much about him imo. Even nice elders often turn nasty when their backs are to the wall.

This is an organization that attaches so much importance and weight to position and rank - things that any spiritual man whether a JW or not knows are corrupting things that Jesus cautioned strongly regarding. I would have great respect for any elder that handed in his book and took his seat with the rest of the congregation over a serious matter of injustice that refused to be handled properly. He could still be loyal and yet clearly indicate he has not supported injustice.

Too many exJW's who were elders imo refuse to accept any responsibility for the harm they caused and look to excuse their past. And too many throw their former qualifications around like they are some kind of badges of honor when imo they are badges of shame.

Path

Edited by - Pathofthorns on 2 October 2002 12:31:29

19

"Silent Witnesses" now available to w...

by Simon in

jw
friends

i've added the australian "silent witnesses" programme to the media files on the site.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/media.asp.

this is a very powerful programme !.

the sound is a bit low so i'll have another go at encoding it better.

Pathofthorns

Thanks for making this available Simon and for those in Australia that contributed to this program. It was very powerful and well done.

I also couldn't help but think of the global nature of these incidents and the similarities with how they were handled leave all fingers pointing to a central policy emminating from a central leadership.

It is a shame that many JW's will be lucky to see only one of the 3 major tv programs on this subject and I wonder if more would not be concerned and see the inconsistencies between what is claimed and the reality that takes place if they were able to view all of them.

Path

Edited by - Pathofthorns on 2 October 2002 11:8:39

61

Are we wrong to attack the Elders?

by MARTINLEYSHON in

jw
friends

i see a number of board members alluding to the elders as antagonists.

this is amoral.

there is an inference that these ones ( elders ) can think for themselves, they cannot.

Pathofthorns

Sometimes those in that position feel a responsibility to remain even though they don't want to, not for pride but so as not to cause diffculty for their families. Wives are often invited to more social gatherings than if husbands were not elders, the elders kids play more together, etc. I can go on and on. We all know how the politics works in Kingdom halls. Some elders have very "JW" families and dont want them to be looked down upon if he loses his position

The reasons you describe for remaining an elder are essentially pride. If any man remained an elder while he supported or ignored unethical treatement of anyone in the flock or refused to resign if the body of elders or their decisions were corrupt I see no way to excuse that behavior. He is a disgrace and a dishonor to the office he is claiming to represent.

And if he is clinging to a position he cannot fully support so his wife can get invited to social gatherings, or so his kids can play with the others in the "in" club, well that reasoning is just disgusting. These sorts of men deserve to be knocked off their high horses and realize in the real world they are ordinaries.

Path

23

So Is It Jst2 Cool Britannia?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

no no, not "cool" as in "kewl", but cool as in chilly and cold, unfriendly almost, like we brits are rumoured to be throughout the world.

this is just an observation about how we perceive different groups of people.

a few weeks back, i was enjoying an uproarious evening in the pub.

Pathofthorns

lol outnfree.. point taken

61

Are we wrong to attack the Elders?

by MARTINLEYSHON in

jw
friends

i see a number of board members alluding to the elders as antagonists.

this is amoral.

there is an inference that these ones ( elders ) can think for themselves, they cannot.

Pathofthorns

We are not necessarily talking about elders believing and teaching false doctrines. The reality is that most of these doctrines are relatively harmless or no more harmful than beliefs in other religions.

What I am speaking about is elders who fail to act ethically/morally within the framework of Society guidelines. Elders fail to reprimend their peers out of fear and allow injustice to take place in congregations because of not wanting to rock boats or due to existing politics within congregations.

An elder should not lose his family over stepping asside from being an elder. A person can still be a loyal JW and be a publisher. If an elder is forced to accept a position where he must compromise his integrity and yet remains an elder, the only thing that keeps him there is his own pride.

Path

23

So Is It Jst2 Cool Britannia?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

no no, not "cool" as in "kewl", but cool as in chilly and cold, unfriendly almost, like we brits are rumoured to be throughout the world.

this is just an observation about how we perceive different groups of people.

a few weeks back, i was enjoying an uproarious evening in the pub.

Pathofthorns

So, I'm just sort of wondering now, is it us who have got it wrong about how the world perceives us?

When you say "the world" do you mean the world or do you mean America?

Path

67

Wrong ASSumptions from apostates

by bomatt6 in

jw
friends

the apostates here have so many wrong assumptions.

anyone that posts against them they assume is defending the society.. i'm neutral towards the society.

i don't defend it nor do i attack it.

Pathofthorns

While not overly in agreement with how the post is worded, I do think some persons manifesting some caution in not jumping on every anti-WT bandwagon that comes along are too often labelled as WT supporters and "trolls".

And while our past prevents us from being truly objective on these matters, I think we need to put forth a greater effort to be objective and reasonable when putting forth arguments against the WT.

I would prefer to say that I try to be balanced, objective and fair when it comes to the WT. To be neutral imo would be to deliberately ignore the evidence against them.

Path

(interesting photo Eman )