patio34

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Posts by patio34

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  93

  What did you do?

  by StiLLinTruth in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  to all those who have in some way left the organization (be it disfellowshipping, disassociating, dis-whatever):.

  come now, i know the amount of people who "realized that wt doctrine was in serious error" and politely handed in their letter of resignation has to be very small.

  the level of bitterness and hostility towards the closest-to-what's-biblical organization has to develop some other way.. what did you do?

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  patio34

  StiLL,

  Well you have sure opened an interesting thread. I've been reading it for days now.

  My reason for leaving after 28 years (I'm just inactive) is that everytime I read any intellectual material or had a conversation with the educated folks at work, it was SO at odds with the WTBS. And, like a good jw, I subdued these doubts I had had for most of my time as a jw.

  However, it suddenly struck me that dinasours predated humans and so their violence couldn't possibly be caused by Adam's sin. Moreover, Gen. 1:30 states that all living creatures were given green vegetation to eat--but dinasours who lived before that were already carnivorous. That seems to be a fatal flaw to me.

  I decided to investigate in scientific literature and have really about decided the WTBS is wrong--about more than dinasours too.

  Patio
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  2

  Matt 24;14

  by stephenw20 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  mat 24:14 and this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

  col 1:23 if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof i paul am made a minister; .

  way to go paul!

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  patio34

  That was a very good point, Stephen! It's amazing how other viewpoints make sense once you break out of the box of WT thinking. Just think how many times we heard their interpretations and endoctrinated outselves thru "study" of their ideas!

  Patio
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  10

  Is it possible to become a Jehovah's Witness by reading the Bible alone?

  by agent2863 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "don't you think it would surely be impossible for a person to become a jehovah's witness by reading the bible alone?

  can someone really come to believe jehovah's witness doctrine by reading the bible only?

  for example, if you were to have only read the bible, with no watchtower study aids, do you think that you would have come to the conclusion that heaven closed its doors in 1935, or that jesus is really the archangel micheal?

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  patio34

  Thanks for the recommendations, Agent and Seven. I will add those to my lists. Actually as for differences in translations, IMO the others are SO much easier to get. NWT seems stilted and wordy, so I often didn't understand what on earth was being said.

  Nice chatting with y'all!
  Patio
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  27

  I hope this is a friendly place

  by truman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i hope this is a friendly place, because i could sure use some friends.

  this is my first try at posting on a discussion board, though i have been lurking here and at a few others on the same subject for a few weeks now.

  about 4 weeks ago i took the plunge and decided to see just what all the mystery and danger of reading "apostate" material was all about.

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  patio34

  Hi again Truman,

  In reference to your son being a bethelite and ms, I just wanted to share my experience just today. My son, ex-bethelite, pioneer, and ms is visiting me for a month and was just told last night about my quitting mtgs a month ago.

  At first he took it well, but today told me he loved me, worried about me, and that he did not want to hear anything about my doubts. Also, to be careful not to read anything that "would offend Jehovah."

  I was upset for a while, but reading the posts on here have helped me get past this hurdle.

  I hope your investigatory trip goes well. Keep in touch.

  Patio
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  10

  Is it possible to become a Jehovah's Witness by reading the Bible alone?

  by agent2863 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "don't you think it would surely be impossible for a person to become a jehovah's witness by reading the bible alone?

  can someone really come to believe jehovah's witness doctrine by reading the bible only?

  for example, if you were to have only read the bible, with no watchtower study aids, do you think that you would have come to the conclusion that heaven closed its doors in 1935, or that jesus is really the archangel micheal?

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  patio34

  Welcome Agent,

  My experience with reading Bible was interesting. The last 5 years I was a jw, I read the Bible straight thru, and the last year I used 4 or 5 translations most of the time. The thing I noticed that it was more and more difficult to keep up with WTS literature. Probably because of the time spent in Bible reading, but I didn't have as much interest in the mags as when not reading the Bible.

  Go figure--but here's a possibility: the mags were too fragmented in the use of the Bible and I liked the continuity of Bible reading straight thru.

  So, to answer the question: it seems as though reading the Bible actually distanced me from the org and it wouldn't be the natural outcome to become a jw from reading the Bible.

  However! Now I'm devoting time to reading about evolution, history not written by WTS, and the like. And this forum!

  Patio
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  14

  JUDGEMENT DAY

  by RR in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the society has condemned just about everyone to second death, especially those who have been jusged in the past by jehovah [adam, sodom, flood victims, etc.

  what do you friends say, does the society have an argument?

  are those judged in the past to stay judged and dead?.

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  patio34

  RR,

  It seems pretty harsh for all of those imperfect people to merit the 2nd death--the same punishment that Satan and his cohorts receive. But, what does the Bible itself actually say?

  A related area is children receiving the 2nd death because of the parents' beliefs at Armageddon. I wrote the WTS long time ago saying this didn't harmonize with Eze. 18 where the whole point is that sons should not be put to death for the father's sin, nor vice versa, but "the soul that is sinning, it itself will die." The reply was it was unwise to say either way. However, the r&f seems to believe kids will die at Armageddon.

  How could young "innocents" merit the same punishment as Satan and demons? Never has made sense to me.

  Patio
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  27

  I hope this is a friendly place

  by truman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i hope this is a friendly place, because i could sure use some friends.

  this is my first try at posting on a discussion board, though i have been lurking here and at a few others on the same subject for a few weeks now.

  about 4 weeks ago i took the plunge and decided to see just what all the mystery and danger of reading "apostate" material was all about.

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  patio34

  Hi Truman and Welcome!

  I just started posting here recently.

  I reached the fork in the road, oddly enough, from watching the movie "Dinasour" with my grandson a month ago and haven't been to a mtg since. I just thought those terrible creatures did not harmonize with Gen. 1:30 where all living things eat vegetation.

  Well, I called my jw sister long distance and asked her her status. She left a year ago! Due to her kind assistance and box of books, I have been doing much reading and spending time on the Internet.

  I love your references to taking the red pill! From the movie "Matrix"? And finding a little old man pulling the levers.

  I have found this to be a very kind, supportive group and it has meant so much to me to TALK to people who understand my doubts. When you're a jw, who can you discuss doubts with? Can you imagine a car group reaction in service if you said "I really wonder whether evolution is possible" or "Do you really believe the world is going to end"?

  So, welcome and keep in touch. I've found more fellowship here than in the last 18 years as a jw.

  Patio (: (That's meant to be a smile!)
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  40

  Where do they sit in your hall?

  by ns7 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what i find bemusing is, if there are any disfellowshipped ones in your hall they have to sit at the back.

  now without getting into the merits/rights/wrongs of whether this should be still acceptable, where do they sit in your hall?

  you see i seem to remember that they would sit on the back row, come in quietly just after the song and prayer and leave at the end just as quick.

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  patio34

  Well, we had an unusually cold request from the hall that df'd my son. He was trying to come back, and his wife was told that he should not attend that hall at all "his presence caused problems for some of the people." I called the elder and then followed it up with a letter to the body (no reply despite a request for one), and then changed congs. Now, for other reasons, I just quit attending.

  So, the command from on high was don't sit anywhere in OUR hall. What a bunch of baloney!

  Patio
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  8

  The walls of Jericho, where?

  by uncle_onion in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am reading a book recomended by ginny tosken.. in it, it states that there were no walls around the city of jericho.

  i seem to remember someone posting last week about this which contradicts the above.. uo

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  patio34

  Uncle Onion,

  Thanks for the post. Would you please let us know the title and author and maybe a brief synopsis? I'm always on the lookout for books to read and I missed Ginny's recommendation. Thanks.

  Patio
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  20

  Evidence of "Independent Thinking"

  by COMF in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  you need some history to understand what i have to tell.

  i have two grown sons.

  son1 is single and a staunch jw whose goal for years has been to go to bethel and to become a missionary.

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  patio34

  Comf,

  Thanks for relating your story. It came at a great time for me as my gung-ho-pioneer-ms son is coming to visit me for a month--tomorrow. And I just quit attending meetings a month ago and he doesn't know. So you can see how much your story means to me. Thanks.

  I've received more positive info and stimulating discussions than I ever received at the . . . BORING . . . meetings! Plus, the conversation before and after seems so superficial, don't you think? And when the friends did get together, it seemed forced friendship. Not the naturally occurring kind. I have always (guiltily) felt closer to the folks at work than at the meetings.

  Well, anyway, this forum means a lot to me and I look forward every day to the new ideas on it.

  Patio