Posts by patio34

my wife divorced me and my children won't talk to me.. that's ok because according to jdubs that proves it's the truth.. as i progressed in "the truth(tm)" all my friends started to abandon me because i was always going to those booring meetings.. when i found someone i liked in "the truth" and started associating with her, some of my witness friends tried to break up the friendship.. ie break up another family before it even starts.. after i married her without getting the elder permission, some of my jdub friends tried to df me, to show how much they loved me.. when they failed to df me some of my witless friends decided to shun me anyway even though the elders pronounced us no guilty.. i should have sued the bastards for slander.

today i'd just give him (the instigator) a good hiding.

patio34

Older Tom,

Good thread!

TMS,
I went back and reread your original post and could see the irony you intended now. Sorry, it was taken wrong.

I haven't welcomed you to the board before and hope this misunderstanding doesn't deter you--your posts are realy good.

Patio

17

New field service tactics!

by NikL in

jw
friends

new regular pioneer techniques .

these are untried and untested techniques to get .

they're called goats in the bible.

patio34

NikL,

Very funny LOL! I'm sure that'll be in the KM soon!

Patio

69

Atheists/Agnostics/Prayer

by patio34 in

jw
friends

on the subject of prayer: this is addressed to the more atheistic or agnostic ones amongst us.. now, all those years i prayed really hard when times were tough, and then things worked out.

i now believe it was my own hard work that gave the solutions.

prayer was helpful in that i felt i had help.

patio34

JanH,

Your post reminded me of Mark Twain's "Letters from the Earth," in the section about prayer:

"he (humans) think he is the Creator's pet. He believes the Creator is proud of him;. .. yes and watches over him and keeps him out of trouble. He prays to Him, and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea? . . . He prays for help, and favor, and protection, every day; and does it with hopefulness and confidence, too, although no prayer of his has EVER been answered. The daily affront, the daily defeat, do not discourage him, he goes on praying just the same. . . " (Emphasis added)

Really, there is no proof that a prayer has been answered. Times I thought it had were easily explained also by coincidence or just the results of my work. "Hard work brings good luck!"

When I first left WTS, I thought I'd have no divine aid. But then, it occurred to me that I never did probably.

Esmerelda,
I only wish I could watch Oprah more--I love Dr. Phil! But, alas, my vcr quit recording. I enjoy your posts a lot. Are you still meditating/yoga-ing? I thought I might give it a try to have the benefits I used to attribute to prayer.

"I'd rather have questions I can't answer than questions I can't ask (or answers I can't question)."

Patio

69

Atheists/Agnostics/Prayer

by patio34 in

jw
friends

on the subject of prayer: this is addressed to the more atheistic or agnostic ones amongst us.. now, all those years i prayed really hard when times were tough, and then things worked out.

i now believe it was my own hard work that gave the solutions.

prayer was helpful in that i felt i had help.

patio34

Larc,
thanks for the clarification and you're right--this thread shouldn't be flooded by 'testimonials' about the value of prayer. There are plenty of threads for that.

Comf, glad you met my sister and hubby--I, too, wish I'd been there!

Patio

50

Does the Watchtower break up famelies?

by OlderTom in

jw
friends

my word it does.. when i started studying with the witlesses all of my family and inlaws deserted me for following a stupit cult.

my wife divorced me and my children won't talk to me.. that's ok because according to jdubs that proves it's the truth.. as i progressed in "the truth(tm)" all my friends started to abandon me because i was always going to those booring meetings.. when i found someone i liked in "the truth" and started associating with her, some of my witness friends tried to break up the friendship.. ie break up another family before it even starts.. after i married her without getting the elder permission, some of my jdub friends tried to df me, to show how much they loved me.. when they failed to df me some of my witless friends decided to shun me anyway even though the elders pronounced us no guilty.. i should have sued the bastards for slander.

today i'd just give him (the instigator) a good hiding.

patio34

TMS,

Oops! Sorry, I guess subtly was lost on me--thanks for clearing that up! You've taken quite a hit.

Mommy, good point about calling it persecution instead of shunning!

Another change that more accurately reflects the situation: call it heresy instead of apostasy. Non-jws don't know what apostasy stands for, but 'heresy' is well-known and reflects on the once calling the name, not the one called by the name.

Esmerelda and nojw86, so sorry about your health and the unbelievable coldness shown by your families. Really shows the true colors of the WTS (by their fruits you shall know them).
However, there is a member of my family who is such an irritant to me, I don't think I'd mind the shunning! He manages to work the words 'pioneering,' 'service,' and meetings, etc. into every paragraph he speaks. He is so arrogant and self-centered! Harumph!

Always reminds me of Erma Bombeck's book 'Family ties that bind and gag'!

Patio

69

Atheists/Agnostics/Prayer

by patio34 in

jw
friends

on the subject of prayer: this is addressed to the more atheistic or agnostic ones amongst us.. now, all those years i prayed really hard when times were tough, and then things worked out.

i now believe it was my own hard work that gave the solutions.

prayer was helpful in that i felt i had help.

patio34

Wow, Esmerelda, that's some husband you have there! But I'm sure he feels the same way as you do! Btw, I also am reading Dr. Phil's book--don't you just love him on Oprah? I've been looking for some sort of advice in the reinventing of myself since leaving the borg. One article I read called it the 'pseudopersonality' you have when in the 'cult.'

i haven't really reached any beliefs in my quest (it's only been 6 weeks!). I give myself a year to infinity. However, I thought that's what agnostic meant: "a" means without and gnosis means knowledge. So, you really don't claim to have the knowledge at that time. Oh dear! My agnosis is showing!

Crossroads, thanks for the post. Larc, sorry if the subject was confusing but the topic was really meant just to link the three subjects not as an invitation. I agree, Larc, that it was not prayer that led me to Simon's, it was my very sweet younger outtatruth sister (who posts as 'Waiting'--cool that's we're sisters, huh?). I just love her to pieces and she's been such a help to me.

Carmel, that was really a moving post. All of us are at different stages and traveling to different conclusions, but we started from the same place.

Tina, I always enjoy your posts! You go, girl!

Isn't it grand to have a place to come to and discuss these 'radical' ideas? It reminds me of a coffee shop in Paris (in the novels) where the university students and/or radicals would meet and discuss serious things.

TTFN,
Patio

28

Amateur Counselors & Nice "Wicked&quot...

by patio34 in

two observations since leaving the jws:.

1. are the elders really 'teachers'?

in the public talk they have to follow the outline provided by the wt.

patio34

Larc,

Thanks for the reply. It has been an eyeopener for me to realize the subtle judgmental attitude I had. I see it in other jws too--along with a tendency to see all others as unintelligent too. E.g., Flowerpetal's derogatory comment about the political system, condemning all in Simon's thread "Why."

I've even noticed some talking about the ill management of the environment. Since I work with a lot of environmental health specialists, I know they're not stupid nor corrupt.

The easiest thing in the world to do is sit back on the sidelines and criticize and talk about how stupid and wicked everyone is.

I guess this is a pet peeve of mine, having worked in government for the past 15 years. Even when a jw, I could see that the agency I worked for was really trying to keep things stable. It was annoying to hear jws who knew nothing about the issues be so opinionated about how stupid everything was.

But what choice do they have? The bible, as presented by the WTS, says the world is evil, that almost everyone is worthy of death, Satan rules the world, to be no part of the world, etc. But, really, the WTS does say to be neutral--but they don't follow that either do they?

Well, again I ramble. These things have been pent up for a long time, and it's darn good to be able to express them. Couldn't to other jws (heresy!) nor to 'worldlings' (might stumble someone!). Still can't to non-jws, because they just don't understand the mindset of the org. Now, here in this wonderful place, we can speak our minds!

Patio

69

Atheists/Agnostics/Prayer

by patio34 in

jw
friends

on the subject of prayer: this is addressed to the more atheistic or agnostic ones amongst us.. now, all those years i prayed really hard when times were tough, and then things worked out.

i now believe it was my own hard work that gave the solutions.

prayer was helpful in that i felt i had help.

patio34

On the subject of prayer: this is addressed to the more atheistic or agnostic ones amongst us.

Now, all those years I prayed really hard when times were tough, and then things worked out. I now believe it was my own hard work that gave the solutions. Prayer was helpful in that I felt I had help. But looking back, it was me that did it.

And I/we still all have the same strength--maybe more--that when we attributed it to supernatural help. It was us all along.

That's liberating, don't you think?

Patio

25

Kingdom Melodies Cassette No. 999999999........

by kimberly in

jw
friends

sad person that i am, i posted this yesterday, but the post seems to have self destructed....... anyway, if anyone posted to the other thread wants to re-post to this one it would be much appreciated.

alright, this is one of those what was your favourite questions:.

when you were a witness (or even if youre still reluctantly attached like me), did you have a favourite kingdom melody (why couldnt they just be called hymns by the way)?.

patio34

Well, I have to admit I loved the song that went:

Joyful be all day long as we take on every task. ....in God's favor we do bask. There is nothing lacking, we have God's backing, what more from him do we now need to ask. We have peace, we have calm, and contentment that is deep. Self-sufficient are we, close to God we strive to keep. and so on.

It's a cheery, energizing, zippy song that I really liked. Actually, I feel the qualities mentioned in the song maybe even more now!

Patio