Posts by flamegrilled

238

Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled in

perhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.

1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).

sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.

flamegrilled

Giordano - not sure I understand. Sorry.

238

Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled in

perhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.

1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).

sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.

flamegrilled

yknot - I did answer the 1914 question about 5 posts above yours - middle paragraph. Maybe you missed it.

elderelite - those are all good questions. If I could truly understand the answers it might help with my original reason for posting. You've obviously had good reason to choose the course you have.

238

Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled in

perhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.

1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).

sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.

flamegrilled

Sorry - not being nosey - I am new here. But it might help me understand the point being made if I could understand how someone could be active while in no way believing the message. It's just left me a little confused is all. I hope you can understand why.

238

Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled in

perhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.

1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).

sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.

flamegrilled

yknot - the way I see that is that it IS good news about the Christ, but with additional details about how everything becomes fulfilled through him. I don't see it as being "another sort of good news". But I understand that you might choose to see it differently. I guess you are reading "something beyond what YOU accepted" to mean that there would never be any additional knowledge on the matter. If so, fair enough. I can see the logic of that.

Regarding how and when - it's clearly speculation built up on some adventist theories in the 19th century. IMO whether it's right or wrong doesn't change God's fundamental purpose to have Christ rule as king until all enemies are put under his feet and all things are reconciled to Him.

I remain confused about your FS. Please just put me out of my misery and say that you don't want to tell me if that's the case and I will stop going on about it. Thanks.

238

Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled in

perhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.

1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).

sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.

flamegrilled

I do. I'm green.

Do you mean that if you were given everlasting life that the location would be important to you? I'm not sure if that's what you meant. If so, that's okay. It's just not important to me.

238

Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled in

perhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.

1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).

sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.

flamegrilled

yknot - With respect, I'd really prefer open discussion to guessing what you're thinking. When you say "NOPE that aint it" you make it sound like there is a word for word right answer which I've failed to identify. But there isn't.

Are you able to satisfy my curiosity as to why you'd be on FS? No problem if you don't want to.

238

Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled in

perhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.

1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).

sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.

flamegrilled

N.drew - I think you are basically on target, but we have to be fair and say that there is no official single line. Yes, JWs make a big thing of the earthly paradise, but I think that's just because it's a distinction from what many other religions believe so it tends to come to the fore in discussion. I don't see why location is very important personally.

238

Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled in

perhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.

1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).

sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.

flamegrilled

yknot - I only went with the dying person as that was the scenario you gave me. And the message does depend to an extent on the recipient. ( No point preaching anything to an atheist unless you can first convince them that it's reasonable to believe in a God - right?)

Nevertheless if you're looking for a generic synopsis then I'll go with "The good news of JWs is the restoration of all things to God by means of his Son's kingdom rule."

But I'm not sure what your angle is. I get the sense you are trying to get me to answer something official that can be shot down. It's not really why I'm here, and I don't mind if someone disagrees with my attempt to summarize it.

I'm compelled to ask why you were in FS yesterday if you feel that you don't have a message worthy of taking to people? To be fair you haven't said exactly that, but that's the vibe I'm getting.

238

Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled in

perhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.

1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).

sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.

flamegrilled

yknot - not to be pedantic but I would have to know whether the dying person had any foundation in scripture.I don't want to sidestep the question so I'll just suppose a not uncommon scenario if that's okay. Dying person is non-practicing Catholic that believes in God but has no real clue what happens after death. So ...

The good news is that this life is not all there is. There is no fear of eternal torment. The Bible promises a resurrection and the possibilty of a renewed relationship with God on the basis of Christ's sacrifice.

Someone else might do it different. I guess some would go on about paradise and where it is etc, but I don't think that's very important to a dying person, and there would be no point trying to convert him to some line of thinking as he's dying.

Anyway I know that not everyone is going to agree with the theology, but that's really another issue. I'd prefer not to send the thread off topic by getting into that. If you believe the message should be something different then I respect that, but that's not really what I'm trying to discuss.

wasblind - I guess a little bit of ditto the above. You are right that we should preach the good news about Jesus. No arguments from me there. But that does not exclude the possibility of preaching about other aspects of God's word and promises provided we are clear that all those become yes only by means of Jesus as the Amen. Do JW's do that sufficiently? Probably not. But again IMHO the fact that they do it at all is still an improvement over Christians who never make an effort. That's the way I currently see it anyway.

ziddina - I respect your view. That's an interesting passage to get put off by if I might say. I can think of others that on the face of it are way worse than that. I'm still working on some of those. Anyway I'm a long way from being an atheist for many reasons, but that again would send things off-topic.

238

Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled in

perhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.

1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).

sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.

flamegrilled

wasblind - I don't go with the drop of poison illustration. It's been a long time since I thought JWs have a monopoly on truth. We don't and nobody has to convince me of that. Furthermore I don't think the Bible indicates that any religion would have absolute truth before the end of this age. Certain truths are important though. For example I think it would be difficult to get close to God and believe in eternal torment at the same time. But mainly I think it is the moral framework that I hold more important, and that moral framework includes certain obligations as Christians - hence the original questions.

The holy spirit cannot be misguided so evidently any error is as a result of human thinking.

The Bible doesn't say that the apostles taught any wrong doctrines ongoing, but it took a while for them to straighten some things out. Let's remember that they taught not just verbal doctrine but also by example. Peter sure didn't set a good one in how he dealt with the Gentiles at one point despite having personally received the "no partiality" vision from God.

It's obvious that anyone searching for the "perfect" religion in an absolute sense is going to end up disappointed. That's why I think it's important to sort out the fundamentally important things scripturally and base decisions on that.

BTW - no "puttin' up with" required - I came here to discuss this so feel free to fire at will.