Tammy - I would do my best. But one could imagine extreme circumstances about anything. What if you were the guy James Franco played in 127 hours? Would you normally choose to go without food and water for several days? Would you choose to cut your arm off with a blunt knife? So I don't feel that imagining an extreme circumstance tells us much about what we "should" be doing as Chrsitians on a day to day basis when all the normal facets of life are available to us.
flamegrilled
JoinedPosts by flamegrilled
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238
Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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238
Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
ShadesofGrey - Food for thought indeed. Was it just a problem with a mix up in dates? Not according to Jer 28:16. It seems to me that the big problem was that Jehovah had told the Israelites that they would have to serve Babylon for the full period, and Hananiah said they would not. In chapter 27 the Israelites were told to submit to the yoke of Babylon, and Hananiah said "be cool guys - everythings going to be okay without this submission business". It seems to me that what was at stake was a direct revolt against the command of God, not a slight temporal mix-up. I understand the parallel you are trying to draw. I just don't think the same principle is at stake. Hananiah downplayed the word of God. If anything WTS has kept the expectation of God's word cranked up a little too high too prematurely, but the ultimate message appears to be correct. And the premature enthusiasm may have indeed served a purpose. Here I am playing some advocacy to WTS teachings, but I fully acknowledge as already stated that it is not without error - I just can't class it as "revolt".
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238
Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
Since a number of people have argued that the gathering in congregation meetings or any sort of group activity is not a requirement for Christians, let me ask a general question - what was the purpose of the first century congregation and the appointed elders? Maybe if I could understand your perspective on that the lightbulb would begin to shine. (I mentioned earlier that this was the bit of Franz's book that didn't gel with me, so I think it's an important piece of the puzzle)
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238
Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
SA - but the implication of what you are suggesting is that what is written in each of Paul's letters is directed only to the specific recipients mentioned in each salutation. If his words to the Hebrews don't apply to the Romans or to us, then his letter to the Romans don't apply to the Corinthians or to us either. The final result of that logic is that nothing in any of his letter applies to us. That doesn't work for me.
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238
Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
ShadesofGrey - do you mean Paul rather than Cornelius then? Can you just say who you are talking about and I'll respond? I already mentioned Paul in my earlier post.
wobble - you say "not a clear scriptural grasp of what the kingdom is". I'm not convinced about that. I've asked people outside of JWs to explain the kingdom and it's so vague. I do believe that the Kingdom is God's government with Christ as king. I do believe that it is His means of reconciling all things to Himself as per his original purpose. I do believe there is scriptural support for this view.
Again, JW's might not have everything right, but personally I think they do have a reasonable idea about what the kingdom is.
You might have a really good and better explanation of the kingdom, and I would be happy to hear that, but generally speaking when I talk to Chrsitians about what God's kingdom is I don't come away feeling that they have a clear scriptural grasp either.
Now someone's going to say that's because it doesn't measure up to WT doctrine. Maybe so. I'm open to that idea. I'll wipe the slate clean and compare two different ideas from scratch if that's what it takes.
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238
Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
ee - glad to give you a good laugh. Anyway, moving on ...
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238
Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
ShadesofGrey - who are you refering to in those chapers - Cornelius? Or someone else?
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238
Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
ShadesofGrey - "First, one must go to Christ. Then Christ will lead you to the group of people he wants you with. "
That sounds great. I like the idea of it. My hesitance in believing that it is entirely true is due to the pattern set by the early Christians. Are there any examples of converts who established a relationship with Christ in isolation and then he led them to a group? I can't think of any. The gospel was preached and then as people learned the truth about Christ they joined themselves to the church that taught them. (Paul was obviously a special case, but then the Lord approached him, not the other way around).
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238
Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
elderelite - "all manner of information"? I haven't asked a single thing except why one person who appeared to be completely opposed to JW teaching would be on FS previous day. I still hold that it was a reasonable question, and once the answer was given I stopped asking.
I don't want to argue about the evident contradiction in the remainer of your post. If you would be so kind then I won't judge you, and I'd expect the same in return.
I've been honest. My motivation for being here is not to make friends (sorry). It's also not to be an apologist for JWs or to trash anyones point of view. I think that must all be obvious from my responses. I am here to explore some interesting views in relation to the honest question posted at the outset. I hope that's sufficient criteria for joining the board and having the discussion. If not then that's no problem. If it's necessary to share a personal history in order to be here then I'd just prefer not. I can respectfully take my leave.
Either way it hasn't been a waste of time. Some interesting ideas have been expressed by a number of posters, so I appreciate that.
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238
Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
N.Drew - with regards to the maning of "gathering ourselves" it's possible that you are correct. The phrase is only elsewhere used in 2 Thes 2:1 and it means exactly what you say.
Nevertheless, even if that's true the NT is pretty clear that the early Christians had congregation, that teaching took place there, that elders were appointed.
And the scripture also includes "incite to love and fine works ... encouraging one another, and all the more so as you behold the day drawing near." It's true that could be acheived outside of group gatherings, but overall the scriptures seem to set a pattern for the church that meeting together for these purposes and for instruction is something instituted and encouraged by God. That's the way I read it.