Posts by flamegrilled

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

flamegrilled

Viviane - please point to where I described either God's ignorance, or His impotence.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

flamegrilled

He made the earth in such a way that earthquakes were a certainty. When he put humans on earth he knew for an absolute certainty that he was condemning millions to violent death.

Not at all. You are assuming that all other variables that we observe are exactly what God (if he exists) intended. We can easily conceive of a planet full of seismic activity in which nobody is hurt.

Are there earthquakes and volcanos that affect nobody? Of course. Can we be certain that current seismic activity has no other explanation except that it has proceeded exactly as God intended? Of course not. In case you haven't noticed humans do interact with the planet.

Therefore it is not a logical certainty that putting human on earth was certain to lead to violent death.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

flamegrilled

Please explain how drowining 250 000 people is not cruel. Cofty

I cannot think of any circumstance under which for me to drown 1 person would not be cruel to some degree. That doesn't mean that such a circumstance does not exist. Furthermore in applying this to the tsunami it assumes that God drowned someone, which is also not established.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

flamegrilled

What is the point of an impotent god?

Cofty - again you go off in an illogical and irrelevant tangent.

You may as well ask "what is the point of my parents if they are not omnipotent?".

And before you say that you said "impotent" not "not omnipotent", you were responding to "Possibly not all-powerful."

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

flamegrilled

Most things are possible. That's why we invented probable.

250k drowned people for no reason = christian bible god probably doesn't exist.

Besty - I've already been directed that this thread is not about the probability of the existence of God. Therefore I am sticking to the point which is simply that the tsanami does not logically present a fatal flaw to theists.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

flamegrilled

Flamegrilled, if you're going to call other people stupid, you should make sure your sentence doing that isn't written incorrectly. Viviane

I beg your pardon? I don't believe I called anyone stupid. And I'm not going to apologize for any gramatical or spelling errors (whatever they were) on a forum. I have a day job too. Please don't be petty.

If its not too much trouble can you let me know the page number of the post you want me to read. Besty

Page 53. 4th post. (and then some subsequent exchanges I guess)

If you know an owner who claimed to love his dog was beating it mercilessly with a big stick, and its discovered that he has been starving it and leaving it out in the cold all night, would it make sense to conclude that his definition of love is perverse? Cofty

Sure. What's that got to do with my analogy?

If there was an owner who did anything cruel to his pet then he is cruel, not loving. That's just simple defininition. I don't know why you think this is relevant.

The simple point is that from a pet's point of view it is possible that something that might seem cruel actually is not. By extension we can say that from the point of view of a lower being ... blah, blah, I'm just repeating what I said above. If you can't get it by what I've all ready written then unfortunately I don't think you will.

You can't even hint at what these facts might be because you know that nothing could possibly turn the drowning of a qaurter of a million people into a perfect act of love.

Drowning 250K people is not a perfect act of love. Who said it was? Why would I need to find a way to prove that it is? You are making connections where they do not logically exist.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

flamegrilled

and that applies how to wiping out 250k humans?

My previous comment was in response to this in case it wasn't clear.

speculate please on what might be the 'true facts' we can't comprehend from the Tsunami? or you can decline to speculate if you prefer.

My only point at this stage is to reason with you that such facts might exist. If you cannot cross that barrier then any speculation would be pointless. Even if you could cross that barrier the specualtation would still be speculation.

But Cofty wants to stick to the point. He contends that the tsunami is a death-blow to theism. All I am demonstrating is that such a firm conclusion is illogical.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

flamegrilled

To anyone who is unable to think in terms of concepts. logic and principles it doesn't apply at all.

For the rest you will have to read my comments, as I'd only repeat myself.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

flamegrilled

besty - I did it several pages back with the anaology of a domestic animal unable to comprehend why a loving owner might inflict pain on it

(sorry I don't know how to link to specific previous comments)

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

flamegrilled

What's your definition of murder? And who said the tsunami was an act of love?

Your logic seems very loose to me.