adamah - some of what you say may be true, but to address it we would have to turn this into a discussion about the existence of God. And Cofty is quite firm that this is not about that. He simply wishes to assert that the tsunami is a defeat to the viewpoint of a Christian theist, but logically speaking there is no reason to make that conclusion.
flamegrilled
JoinedPosts by flamegrilled
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
Flamegrilled you have just hit bedrock of willful stupidity. I am embarrassed for you.
When comments like this are made with no reference to what was said, or no further argument, I can only assume that there is no further argument and an insult will have to do instead.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
The god of christian theism made the world the way he intended.
But as you are well aware a Christian theist does not believe that the current world exists as God intended. (This also applies to the first point)
Humans have had absolutely zero influence on plate tectonics.
An assertion which you have no possible way to support.
Please don't get me wrong. I am not asserting that humans have had an effect on plate tectonics. I am simply saying that you cannot support your absolute statement. The best you would be able to to do is provide some opinions on the matter.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
And impotent was the right word in the way he used it. The reason it's even being discussed is that would NOT be the God of the Bible, the one Christians worship, if he is NOT all powerful, if he is impotent. Viviane
This is going off-topic but since I didn't start it ...
Since when is the definition of impotent "a being who is not omnipotent"?
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
Viviane - please point to where I described either God's ignorance, or His impotence.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
He made the earth in such a way that earthquakes were a certainty. When he put humans on earth he knew for an absolute certainty that he was condemning millions to violent death.
Not at all. You are assuming that all other variables that we observe are exactly what God (if he exists) intended. We can easily conceive of a planet full of seismic activity in which nobody is hurt.
Are there earthquakes and volcanos that affect nobody? Of course. Can we be certain that current seismic activity has no other explanation except that it has proceeded exactly as God intended? Of course not. In case you haven't noticed humans do interact with the planet.
Therefore it is not a logical certainty that putting human on earth was certain to lead to violent death.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
Please explain how drowining 250 000 people is not cruel. Cofty
I cannot think of any circumstance under which for me to drown 1 person would not be cruel to some degree. That doesn't mean that such a circumstance does not exist. Furthermore in applying this to the tsunami it assumes that God drowned someone, which is also not established.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
-
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flamegrilled
What is the point of an impotent god?
Cofty - again you go off in an illogical and irrelevant tangent.
You may as well ask "what is the point of my parents if they are not omnipotent?".
And before you say that you said "impotent" not "not omnipotent", you were responding to "Possibly not all-powerful."
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
Most things are possible. That's why we invented probable.
250k drowned people for no reason = christian bible god probably doesn't exist.
Besty - I've already been directed that this thread is not about the probability of the existence of God. Therefore I am sticking to the point which is simply that the tsanami does not logically present a fatal flaw to theists.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
Flamegrilled, if you're going to call other people stupid, you should make sure your sentence doing that isn't written incorrectly. Viviane
I beg your pardon? I don't believe I called anyone stupid. And I'm not going to apologize for any gramatical or spelling errors (whatever they were) on a forum. I have a day job too. Please don't be petty.
If its not too much trouble can you let me know the page number of the post you want me to read. Besty
Page 53. 4th post. (and then some subsequent exchanges I guess)
If you know an owner who claimed to love his dog was beating it mercilessly with a big stick, and its discovered that he has been starving it and leaving it out in the cold all night, would it make sense to conclude that his definition of love is perverse? Cofty
Sure. What's that got to do with my analogy?
If there was an owner who did anything cruel to his pet then he is cruel, not loving. That's just simple defininition. I don't know why you think this is relevant.
The simple point is that from a pet's point of view it is possible that something that might seem cruel actually is not. By extension we can say that from the point of view of a lower being ... blah, blah, I'm just repeating what I said above. If you can't get it by what I've all ready written then unfortunately I don't think you will.
You can't even hint at what these facts might be because you know that nothing could possibly turn the drowning of a qaurter of a million people into a perfect act of love.
Drowning 250K people is not a perfect act of love. Who said it was? Why would I need to find a way to prove that it is? You are making connections where they do not logically exist.