I am finding it difficult to maintain that generous opinon. Cofty
LOL. Once we all get over our egos we might be able to have a reasoned conversation.
But our egos would not be the only hindrance would they?
flamegrilled
JoinedPosts by flamegrilled
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
jgnat - your analogy didn't explain the universe, so I must reject it.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
Also the application and limits of an analogy should be explained.
LOL. You can lead a horse to water ...
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
Cofty, would you say that flamegrilled's idea of there being and unknown ungraspable unknown is a mashup of "it's a mystery" and "just have faith"? I ask because, as I think about it, he is saying it's a mystery, but one we could never understand even if we had the information, so just have faith.
Cofty, would you say that a fair summary of your argument is "if god exists god dun it"?
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
After my very first comment you insisted that I narrow my thoughts to the very specific field in which you framed the problem. Now you accuse me of not painting the bigger picture.
What exactly do you want?
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
-
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flamegrilled
What is your problem with analogies Cofty?
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
The issue is really that anyone trying to make out that the drowning of a quarter of a million people is even just part of a perfect act of love comes across as a heartless, inhuman and unchristian monster. Simon
Just describing things in emotive language does not add to a logical assessment of anything. You guys get so righteously indignant about this. You'd think it would be the theists that would be more inclinded to appeal to emotion, and yet we would not be able to compete even if we were inclined to.
Are you really so intrinsically altruistic that every seeming act of injustice really renders you incapable of logical objectivity? I have to say it just ends up coming across like a rant. And those who are incapable of building a logical thought just randomly throw in repeated soundbites.
I am aware that someone recently got banned from this discussion by merely suggesting that one factor IN CONTEXT was not as big of a game changer as some were purporting it to be. I believe that she actually said "in context", but all subsequent references to that modifier were edited out. Why?
Why not permit rational discussion to be given free reign for a while? I don't just mean in terms of undesirable comments being deleted. But even for your own benefit, curbing this gut reaction to stiffle any opposing view through censorship and vitriol might provide some of you with the opportunity to consider your possible fallibility.
Are you fallible? Perhaps if you cannot honestly answer that then the problem has been nailed before we even get into the discussion of any specific subject - theological or otherwise.
I know I'm falliable. I shouldn't even have to say it, but I only believe that my voice is worth hearing because I recognize that. If I didn't then all I would be offering is rhetoric. You don't have to be a Christian theist to have some humility, but some people make it appear that it's an impossible quality for an atheist.
jgnat - thanks for your cut and paste of a bad analogy. From reading your comments on other posts I believe that you are smart enough to understand the limitations of an analogy as applied by the person who provides it. Each analogy I have provided demonstrates a very specific point. To then try to pretend I am illustrating the full picture of the Asian tsunami in each one is a demonstration of ignorance. If we go down this road then every illustration and anaolgy ever given should ultimately be able to explain every aspect of the universe. A logical argument should break down the issue into the key principles that are in question and deal with them both individually and then collectively. When presenting an analogy that addresses an individual componant, it is a lazy and ignorant response to misapply it to the collective and label it weak.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
what you call "bleeding obvious"
Oops that was Simon. Reading too fast. Sorry.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
-
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flamegrilled
Please address the question directly, and preferably without any further analogies. Cofty
I did so. The analogies were only there to help people who are unable to grasp simple logical statements. But here it is again:
Whilst the statement may be true, the way you are framing it is an oversimplification. What you are really asking us to agree is:
God is love therefore every act or lack of action taken in isolation must definable as an act of love.
This is not necessarily true.
The bold type is to assist you to see the logical point without the need of an analogy.
You seem incapable of applying what you call "bleeding obvious" in a logical sense.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
... but your analogy is broken because ... Viviane
Just like in real life, things tend to break when they are misused.
I would like to know why your record is broken.