I have lost patience with you FG. Cofty
It's not a big concern to me Cofty. Your misrepresentations of my position have been numerous, but I have patiently continued the conversation. If you have lost patience I cannot help that.
flamegrilled
JoinedPosts by flamegrilled
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
Flamegrilled is there anything inaccurate about this summary of your position?
Atheist - The enormity of natural evil argues powerfully against christian theism.
Flamegrilled - Natural evil does not make my loving god logically impossible.
Atheist - In what way?
Flamegrilled - There may be facts you are not aware of.
Atheist - What facts could reconcile a tsunami with a loving, knowing, omnipotent god?
Flamegrilled - That is a mystery, I am just saying it's not logically impossible.
Atheist - It is very compelling evidence against theism. What evidence to the contrary could possibly be so strong?
Flamegrilled - I refuse to talk about it and I don't like your tone
Yes
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
I am concerned that lurkers may be begining to wonder if Flamegrilled is an atheist plant, trying to prove that theists have no answer to natural evil.
Nobody could have done a better job. Cofty
You probably don't need to be overly concerned. I know I'm not. Intelligent lurkers will decide for themselves despite your desparate need to masquerade some sort of contrived victory.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
-
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
Adam's point was a deliberate distraction ... The thread is about the Asian tsunami. Cofty
You keep redefining the goalposts just as Adam said. I made a passing comment about the possibility of the human effect. You were the one that made an absolute AND GENERAL assertion to the contrary. Adam took no time in demonstrating that your assertion was groundless, and then you accuse him of creating a distraction.
Now you want to again narrow your point to a single specific natural disaster when it suits you to do so.
This thread is about the Asian tsunami? And that's it? Of course it isn't. You have happily entertained diversions of this thread to many other topics when the commenters shared your world view.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
You do have a tendency to drop the tough questions and pick the low-hanging fruit. jgnat
I don't see why it is a problem to pick the low hanging fruit. Cofty is the one making the OP assertion. I merely tackled its logical flaws. The burden of proof is on him in this case. If the assertions were watertight there would be no fruit hanging - low or high.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
jgnat
I am very impressed that you took the time to compile that. I mean that genuinely.
Nonetheless, it should be pointed out that by only selectively including comments from the three of us there are missing pieces in the conversation.
For example I made a passing comment about how we could not be certain whether humans had had any influence on natural disasters. Cofty immediately responded asserting categorically that humans had had zero influence on plate tectonics just as you recorded. However, Adam followed up with a great comment linking to possible evidence to the contrary.
Cofty said- Humans have had absolutely zero influence on plate tectonics.
You might want to check those "facts" before you spout off as an expert, Cofty, as you're just flat-out wrong, and you don't get to make up your own facts (you should be embarrassed):
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/worst-earthquakes-disasters-gas-extraction-mining-oil-528373
It's called 'induced seismicity', and it's a problem in the States from oil-well drilling (esp with use of fracking techniques).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_seismicity
Adam
Since Adam had made the point that Cofty was being assertive without consideration of all the evidence I didn't feel the need to comment on that further. Besides which, it wasn't my primary point.
Therefore, lovely as your table is, it doesn't therefore present a full picture of the conversation that has truly taken place. I grant you that it would be difficult to do so, and you have made a fine effort, but let the unbiased reader treat it with caution. The only way to truly see what has been discussed is to read it.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
you are simply an idiot or a deluded fool
Simon - if I said to this you know very well how you would respond. And it wouldn't be via a reply.
Now, if you don't think we can decide what is and isn't good or bad then Adam and Eve didn't sin and so why aren't we all petting Lions in the Garden of Eden? It also means that part of the bible is a lie ... so your beliefs still die, just a different way.
Like Cofty you make much of what I believe before I've ever said any such thing.
of course this also destroys the notion that god allows free will - he simply wants docile unthinking pets.
How illogical to say so specifically what a being "wants" that you have no belief in. Many Christians do not interpret the Genesis story in this way. I do not believe that Christian theism is dependent on it.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
Cofty - it's logically impossibly that the deity of a Christian theist exists
Theist - on what basis?
Cofty - because we know that allowing the Asian tsunami could not in any way reflect his supposed quality of love
Theist - are you certain of what the end result will be of allowing the tsunami?
Cofty - mostly. But the most important thing is that people died at the time.
Theist - are you certain of what the end result would be if God were to intervene in natural disasters right now?
Cofty - not really. But the most important thing is that people will be saved from natural disaters.
Theist - how do you know that's the most important thing?
Cofty - ?
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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flamegrilled
No because you totally ignored the second and mmore important part of my reply.
That is dishonest.
I have said repeatedly that you can have a deity that drowns a quarter of a million people. You cannot have the god of christian theism. That is a logical impossibility.
It's true that I ignored the second part of your post. Ignorring something I've previously addressed is not dishonest.
Dishonest is misquoting others, misapplying what they say, and claiming they said things they didn't. All of which you have done.