Tammy - just so I understand do you think that the NT is inspired, or some of it, or none of it? I note you quote 1 John, but seem to imply that Paul was acting with good motive, but maybe not exactly according to what Christ had in mind. Did I understand that correctly? If so I am not asking so as to disagree or criticize. I myself have wondered when Paul says in one place "I say, not the Lord" (can't remember where). It would just help me if I understood your perspective on the NT as the inspired word of God or not.
flamegrilled
JoinedPosts by flamegrilled
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Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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238
Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
N.Drew - I'm giving that some thought. For example the elders are told to "Shepherd the flock of God under your care" which must refer to the people in the congregation - no? But I can't think of anywhere it says "be caretakers for God's word" or something along those lines.
Similarly the Christians were told to be "obedient to those taking the lead among you", which again seems to put the emphasis on elders looking after the congregation and setting an example.
Could you give me an example of the scriptrues that you believe put more emphasis on elders just keeping the word pure over time? I'd like to see that and give it some more thought.
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238
Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
N.Drew - regardless of the strict definition of "forsake" I think most would understand that it means not to abandon something. Evidently the NT doesn't lay down a certain number of meetings per week/month/year, but the idea of regularity is surely inherant in "all the more so as you behold the day drawing near." (it's funny thinking about that that one meeting got cut even though the day must be nearer). I think I'm finding it difficult to exactly grasp some of your application of that passage. I prefer a simple reading, but I will give it some more thought.
As to the purpose of the congregation being to "preserve the word through the ages", I don't think that is stated anywhere, and I don't see any evidence that a "congregation" has been successful at doing that from the intervening period between Christ and now. Do you have some scriptural reasoning to identify that as the purpose? I would be interested to understand that. It seems to me that the "inciting to love and fine works" is more intrinsic to the purpose, and that would apply all the more so nearer the conclusion of the system of things.
miles3 - Of course I accept that my questions are presented from with my own frame of reference, and that is shaped by external influences (including in part WT teachings). In principle that is true of all of us. To imply however that I am unable to analyse the scripture in any form of objective manner is wrong. You may feel that way, but that is without knowing me personally, so it would seem to be an unfair judgement. If some of my conclusions coincide with WTS teachings that does not automatically make them wrong. That would be unless we could categorically say that EVERY WTS teaching is wrong (just because). I would say that someone who took that view would have to be able to somehow justify that as a blanket statement, otherwise it is just as narrow minded as someone who accept all WTS teachings as correct (just because)
Tammy - I still feel that "gathering together" is a form of command. "Command" just might a negative connotation because it sounds like a "demand", so maybe there is a better way of describing it because nether word occurs in relation to congregation meetings. But it is similar to when a parent might ask their child to do something that will strongly benefit them if they do, and have a serious negative effect if they do not. Is that a command? Well from the parent's point of view (if he/she is a good parent) the child's actions are not optional. But it might still be presented as a strong plee or request, and if the child is correctly motivated he/she will see it as non-optional. I think that encouragement to gather is a bit like that.
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Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
Tammy - I would do my best. But one could imagine extreme circumstances about anything. What if you were the guy James Franco played in 127 hours? Would you normally choose to go without food and water for several days? Would you choose to cut your arm off with a blunt knife? So I don't feel that imagining an extreme circumstance tells us much about what we "should" be doing as Chrsitians on a day to day basis when all the normal facets of life are available to us.
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238
Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
ShadesofGrey - Food for thought indeed. Was it just a problem with a mix up in dates? Not according to Jer 28:16. It seems to me that the big problem was that Jehovah had told the Israelites that they would have to serve Babylon for the full period, and Hananiah said they would not. In chapter 27 the Israelites were told to submit to the yoke of Babylon, and Hananiah said "be cool guys - everythings going to be okay without this submission business". It seems to me that what was at stake was a direct revolt against the command of God, not a slight temporal mix-up. I understand the parallel you are trying to draw. I just don't think the same principle is at stake. Hananiah downplayed the word of God. If anything WTS has kept the expectation of God's word cranked up a little too high too prematurely, but the ultimate message appears to be correct. And the premature enthusiasm may have indeed served a purpose. Here I am playing some advocacy to WTS teachings, but I fully acknowledge as already stated that it is not without error - I just can't class it as "revolt".
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238
Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
Since a number of people have argued that the gathering in congregation meetings or any sort of group activity is not a requirement for Christians, let me ask a general question - what was the purpose of the first century congregation and the appointed elders? Maybe if I could understand your perspective on that the lightbulb would begin to shine. (I mentioned earlier that this was the bit of Franz's book that didn't gel with me, so I think it's an important piece of the puzzle)
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238
Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
SA - but the implication of what you are suggesting is that what is written in each of Paul's letters is directed only to the specific recipients mentioned in each salutation. If his words to the Hebrews don't apply to the Romans or to us, then his letter to the Romans don't apply to the Corinthians or to us either. The final result of that logic is that nothing in any of his letter applies to us. That doesn't work for me.
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238
Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
ShadesofGrey - do you mean Paul rather than Cornelius then? Can you just say who you are talking about and I'll respond? I already mentioned Paul in my earlier post.
wobble - you say "not a clear scriptural grasp of what the kingdom is". I'm not convinced about that. I've asked people outside of JWs to explain the kingdom and it's so vague. I do believe that the Kingdom is God's government with Christ as king. I do believe that it is His means of reconciling all things to Himself as per his original purpose. I do believe there is scriptural support for this view.
Again, JW's might not have everything right, but personally I think they do have a reasonable idea about what the kingdom is.
You might have a really good and better explanation of the kingdom, and I would be happy to hear that, but generally speaking when I talk to Chrsitians about what God's kingdom is I don't come away feeling that they have a clear scriptural grasp either.
Now someone's going to say that's because it doesn't measure up to WT doctrine. Maybe so. I'm open to that idea. I'll wipe the slate clean and compare two different ideas from scratch if that's what it takes.
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238
Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
ee - glad to give you a good laugh. Anyway, moving on ...
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238
Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
ShadesofGrey - who are you refering to in those chapers - Cornelius? Or someone else?