Posts by tornapart

30

Original Sin / Salvation without a literal Adam and Eve?

by Coded Logic in

something i've never understood is if adam and eve are just metaphorical where did "original sin" come from.

and, if there was no original sin, what is the value of jesus sacrifice?.

i know a lot of christians believe in evolution but i've never understood how such a belief is structured.

tornapart

Haven't read all the posts on this yet but this is something that really interests me as a christian. I can't refute evolution as a process and believe God has a hand in it somewhere. This rules out a literal Adam and Eve... however. most historians recognize that civilisation started around 6,000 years ago in the Mesopotamian area. Could 'Adam' and 'Eve' have been the change between animal like humans with no 'spiritual' side to humans who became 'in God's image' with a spiritual nature? I believe there was a human rebellion against God with man aspiring to become 'like God'. Leading to the coming of Christ and everything that went with it.

I'm still trying to work things out in my mind as to what I believe and don't believe (which is freeing in itself as I don't have anyone else tell me what I should believe). At the moment I'm open to all thoughts and ideas. Having said that I still believe in God and Christ and still consider myself christian. But science can't be refuted.

19

Identity Theft

by Jerryh in

jw
friends

this forum offers the stories of folks with as many variations as there are folks and a “great crowd” of lurkers whose stories may never be offered.

i am an outsider with a broken heart for some insiders that i love more than they know.

after reading nearly every “apostate” book ever written, lurking, being worn out searching the wt cd, i have come to an idea that i present for your appraisal..

tornapart

I have come to believe the simple Gospel of Christ that goes against the WT teachings and conforms more to mainstream christianity. I can no longer preach the 'different kind of gospel' that WT teaches. If I go to meetings it's simply for the sake of my family. They still believe in the WT teachings (even if not all) and find they can still follow Christ in their own way. It's hard to try and live the way Christ taught when so much goes against WT teachings but I'm sure he understands.

17

Science Alert Quiz

by cofty in

take the test fellow hominids.... i got 7/7.

tornapart

I got 6/7 too. Got caught on the last one.. but not bad for someone that knows very little about evolution. Must be down to Cofty's lessons...

38

Your Jehovah’s Witness Is Showing

by David_Jay in

since i just signed up and posted a few times without doing this yet, here is my story..

i think that i became a jehovahs witness because of my immaturity.

i had some quirky personality traits, and i joined finding that i fit in because, as i said to myself: these people get me.

tornapart

Your friends the Randalls sound like wonderful people!

The thing I hate most about the JWs is their 'I'm right, you're wrong' approach and unfortunately that mentality has a tendency to stick regardless of where your new beliefs take you, be it theism or atheism. The best people to be around are those that are intelligent enough to have a great discussion with and yet open minded enough to allow others to have their own beliefs about things without belittling them. Your friends sound like exactly those sort of people.

That was a great post and something for each of us to think about and try not to let our 'Jehovah's Witness show'!

74

Living Through the Brief Liberalization of Jehovah's Witnesses, Never Recovering

by TMS in

jw
friends

with the book crisis of conscience detailing the turbulence at bethel during the early to mid 70's, the transformation from autocratic rule to governance by committee or a body of men, many of us can speak to how that felt among the rank and file of the local congregations during those years.

we learned new concepts based in large part to research done for the aid to bible understanding volume, then we were asked or coerced into unlearning those principles, going back to the old ways.

some of us never readjusted, finding ourselves very different from our more hardline compadres.. the inertia for the changes that eventually were initiated in the congregations came from the discovery that the greek words episkopos and presbyteros were used biblically to refer to all qualified men in a congregation, not just one.

tornapart

I remember these years as a teen, They were the best years, apart from a few hardliners in the cong, it was mostly an easy time. There were several changes and generally for the better. It wasn't until I read Ray Franz' book CoC recently that I realised a lot of those changes were brought about under his influence. Such a shame there weren't more like him. Things could have been so different.

11

The Hermit's story PART 3

by The Hermit in

you know what, i think that i really enjoy telling my story to you guys after all.

yesterday while i was going through the events of part 2 tears were rolling down my face at some point but tonight i'm just smiling.

thank you all for your support, i appreciate it.

tornapart

Really enjoying your story Hermit but yes, it's awful that you had to go through all that at such a young age!

39

A Big Hello From Mouthy/Grace and.....

by label licker in

jw
friends

a special message to her daughter, ann marie if you are watching this site.

your mother is eighty-eight now and her memory is going fast.

please call her, ann marie.

tornapart

Grace is a wonderful lady, I really hope she gets to talk to her daughter soon!

6

The Hermit's story PART 2

by The Hermit in

my father is a fast learner.

he studied hard and he was really interested.

real hard.

tornapart

Enjoying reading your story Hermit. What a terrible thing to happen to you! It must have taken a lot of courage to write about this. Looking forward to part 3.

15

We are living in the 21st Century , When , Are We Going to Bury Religious Superstition ? Once and for all ?

by smiddy in

the christian bible / cannon is different , depending on what religion you profess ,around the world.. russian orthodox ,greek orthodox ,christian gnostics ,roman catholics , polish national catholics ,c.of e , etc,etc,.

the very many christian bible translations that exist today differ according to different interpretations of the translators.. the jewish translators of the hebrew scriptures add a whole new concept to the traditional interpretation by christian translators of the old testament... throw in the mix all of the fundamentalist religions that have sprung up these past couple of centuries including the j.w.`s , s.d.a.`s , mormons , t.v.

evangelists , etc, etc,.

tornapart

I must say those are questions I've been asking myself for a long time. If you believe in a God it gives you a strange sense of abandonment sometimes but then there are other times when he feels strangely close. I feel being in a religion can give you a sense of belonging, a higher power to tell you what to do and what to believe, maybe in the same way as a child with a parent. Only trouble is a child grows up and moves away, makes his own way in life. Who wants to be stuck as a child? The way I think of it myself, I can't shake off the feeling that there is a God. He does exist to me. Have I got evidence... no. But then neither is there evidence that he doesn't exist. I don't believe he is involved in man's affairs the way religion says he is. We have free will and free choices, Many don't like it when that free will and free choice is taken away by religion.

It's good to keep asking questions... even if we don't like the answers. Sometimes there are no answers.

133

The new service meeting

by John Aquila in

i wanted to relate an experience that happened this morning.

it is regarding the new format for the meeting on thursdays in my area.

its not word for word but im summarizing what i heard, the best i can remember.

tornapart

I told my elder hubby your story this morning John Aquila and he wasn't surprised at all. He said he knows what a lot of the brothers and sisters are saying and many are disturbed by all the changes especially the older ones. He even told me that all the things I'm bothered about, many others are bothered by too (except I've gone one step further by leaving). He thinks there will be a lot more asking questions sooner or later.